CPC Leadership

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Here's an idea:

If you want Lewis to be an electable candidate, get her to drop 2 things...

1. Abortion; all she has to say is "personally opposed but I support a woman's right to choose and will not move to change any laws or restrict access, and will not allow party members to put forward legislation to that affect"

2. LGBTQ+ right; she wants to repeal C16 which provides protection from discrimination to trans/non binary folks under the CHRA and Criminal Code. She keeps that in her platform and she won't get many moderates voting for her.
 
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Smitticus said:
Honestly don't understand how anyone thinks Lewis has a chance to win a general election... probably the same people who thought Canadians wouldn't ever vote for Trudeau again in the last election. The minute the word abortion comes out of a candidates mouth, they've lost. It doesn't matter that she only wants to prevent "gender selective abortions" and to end Canadian funding access to abortion services in foreign countries... she's toast. The general electorate is not as knowledgeable as we seem to be giving them credit for. O'Toole's social conservatism and desperation to hold onto the "tru blue" label will also cost him in an election. The vast majority of Canadians believe in abortion, LGBTQ2 rights and climate change. MacKay is the only shot of a general election victory. The fundraising data for the leadership contest also points in this direction. Voting for either Lewis of O'Toole will simply be akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face and all but guarantee another Liberal victory. I've voted Conservative in every election since I'v been old enough to vote, but even I would have a hard time casting a ballot for a candidate with such outdated social views. We need to accept the fact that MacKay isn't the most Conservative of the candidates, but he is the only one who could take on Trudeau. We need to take our wins where we can and win the battle before we can win the war. If you want another Liberal government - possibly even a majority, then by all means, vote for Lewis or O'Toole. If you want an actual chance of a CPC government after the next election, you need to get behind MacKay, at least for now.
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Outdated social views? I am trying to learn about the candidates. However abortion can be swept under the table. Focus on the environmemt swing hippies, use the visible minority to an advantage, and ##### Mackay has political demons that will get brought up, using DND helicopters, losing a laptop, etc. Media will drag him through the mud. Yes Lewis is new, inexperienced. So was the part time drama teacher/ski instructor. Lewis has a better chance of pulling votes out of the GTA. That is what is needed. Mackay speels doom. Lewis will get more confident, and fast. She isn't perfect, but the conservative party has to change its colours and become more appealing to a broad group of voters. Not hardline Cons.
 
jobbass said:
In order to win the next election
Conservative must find a candidate from Ontario
1- speak French fluently
2- be open minded about the LGBT community
3- stop mumbling about abortion issue


And only after that we can win

Stop choosing candidates from the west which represent 15% of the population at best
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To be honest, if Bernier was still in the cpc camp , I would vote for him instead of Lewis, who is my number 1.

The reason is exactly that ; Bernier is a Quebecer, and he speaks French fluently, and moreover, he is the kind of bum that Quebecers like.

because one thing is certain : elections are won by quebec, and ontario. and since quebecers are used to all lining up under the same banner, bernier could have actually won the next one because quebec would have lined up behind him; he's well known and gets a lot of support in quebec city and around,and in beauce at large. only montreal would have kept voting turdeau.

the end justifies the means.
 
Bernier couldn't even win his own seat because of his stance on supply management.

To think he could win the whole province is laughable at best, but mostly delusional.
 
elusiveshapesandforms said:
To be honest, if Bernier was still in the cpc camp , I would vote for him instead of Lewis, who is my number 1.

The reason is exactly that ; Bernier is a Quebecer, and he speaks French fluently, and moreover, he is the kind of bum that Quebecers like.

because one thing is certain : elections are won by quebec, and ontario. and since quebecers are used to all lining up under the same banner, bernier could have actually won the next one because quebec would have lined up behind him; he's well known and gets a lot of support in quebec city and around,and in beauce at large. only montreal would have kept voting turdeau.

the end justifies the means.
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So which policy positions do you think makes Lewis electable?

Certainly not her stance on abortion, or her wanting to strip human rights protections from trans/non binary people.

Insofar as I can tell, both of those will absolutely torpedo any chance she has.
 
l!fealert said:
So which policy positions do you think makes Lewis electable?

Certainly not her stance on abortion, or her wanting to strip human rights protections from trans/non binary people.

Insofar as I can tell, both of those will absolutely torpedo any chance she has.
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Which human rights protections do you think she wants to strip from people, and what specifically do you mean by human rights protections?
 
All in fun said:
Which human rights protections do you think she wants to strip from people, and what specifically do you mean by human rights protections?
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So, Leslyn Lewis has as part of her platform that she plans to repeal Bill C-16. It's not what I think, it's what is clearly stated in her platform.

"I will also repeal Bill C-16, which attacks free speech, threatening fines and sanctions against people who use incorrect speech. I believe that Canadian laws sufficiently protect against actual abuses and harassment of individuals."

https://www.leslynlewis.ca/policies (Scroll down to Attacks on Freedom)

Let's clear this up. What she calls 'incorrect speech' is called general decency and common courtesy. Im so sorry using the pronouns someone asks, or not dead-naming (using their pre-transition name) is such a ####ing giant imposition. Nobody seems to find using Ms/Mrs/Miss for a woman difficult, so why is they/them or their chosen name so goddamn difficult.

C-16 added 'gender identity or expression' to the protected groups under the Canadian Human Rights Act and to the 'identifiable groups' in the Criminal Code.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/c-16/first-reading

A repeal of C-16 would, in effect, strip from trans and non-binary people protections from discrimination under the Human Rights Act (based on their gender identity or expression). It would also mean that crimes committed against these people would not result in additional considerations during sentencing if the crimes were motivated by bias/discrimination/etc due to their gender identity or expression (like it would if that was the motivation for a crime against any other [defined] identifiable group)


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-718.2.html




So, in summary, she'd like to strip important human rights protections from trans and non-binary people.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
 
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l!fealert said:
So, Leslyn Lewis has as part of her platform that she plans to repeal Bill C-16. It's not what I think, it's what is clearly stated in her platform.

"I will also repeal Bill C-16, which attacks free speech, threatening fines and sanctions against people who use incorrect speech. I believe that Canadian laws sufficiently protect against actual abuses and harassment of individuals."

https://www.leslynlewis.ca/policies (Scroll down to Attacks on Freedom)

Let's clear this up. What she calls 'incorrect speech' is called general decency and common courtesy. Im so sorry using the pronouns someone asks, or not dead-naming (using their pre-transition name) is such a ####ing giant imposition. Nobody seems to find using Ms/Mrs/Miss for a woman difficult, so why is they/them or their chosen name so goddamn difficult.

C-16 added 'gender identity or expression' to the protected groups under the Canadian Human Rights Act and to the 'identifiable groups' in the Criminal Code.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/bill/c-16/first-reading

A repeal of C-16 would, in effect, strip from trans and non-binary people protections from discrimination under the Human Rights Act (based on their gender identity or expression). It would also mean that crimes committed against these people would not result in additional considerations during sentencing if the crimes were motivated by bias/discrimination/etc due to their gender identity or expression (like it would if that was the motivation for a crime against any other [defined] identifiable group)


https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-718.2.html




So, in summary, she'd like to strip important human rights protections from trans and non-binary people.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
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To me, your comments make no sense. You suggest people should be called whatever they want. I will call people by whatever term fits my thought of what gender they look like. If they say they aren't that gender, then in almost all cases I'll say sorry, my bad, and move forward. But your thought is I should somehow guess whatever the other person wants me to say even if I know otherwise. That is an infringement on free speech, and since there is a potential legal penalty for it, it's terrible legislation. So any candidate that doesn't feel that way is one I wouldn't vote for. I have no interest in discrimination, but I don't support criminalizing speech except in very narrow circumstances. The legislation, to me, is abhorrent.
 
l!fealert said:
Here's an idea:

If you want Lewis to be an electable candidate, get her to drop 2 things...

1. Abortion; all she has to say is "personally opposed but I support a woman's right to choose and will not move to change any laws or restrict access, and will not allow party members to put forward legislation to that affect"

2. LGBTQ+ right; she wants to repeal C16 which provides protection from discrimination to trans/non binary folks under the CHRA and Criminal Code. She keeps that in her platform and she won't get many moderates voting for her.
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lmfao the people who care about "trans rights" will never even vote conservative to begin with.

There is no such thing as trans rights. The inhumane practice of ### changing surgeries and giving kids hormone blockers and estrogen/testosterone needs to be abolished.
 
Oh man, now you’re really opening a can of worms talking about C16!

Repealing that doesn’t take away any rights of trans people - but it does, imho, fix the dangerous precedent of suppressing free speech that law has started down the path of... I think making issues of LGBTQ, etc, a thing should be long past us, the majority of Canadians don’t think twice anymore - live and let live. Just like the many ### people I work with, they themselves keep dragging drama up when it is a total non issue to everyone else. It’s noise. We should focus on other, more important, matters. I’m not trying to offend anyone, just my opinion...
 
Apologies for steering off the topic, just a quick note to all: The resistance to dictatorship has started

 
BabySeal said:
Sorry. Calling a Mr a Mrs or vice versa is inappropriate.

It should not however, be a crime.
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It's not a crime until you do it intentionally.

Nobody's charging you for doing it accidentally, being corrected, and then (using a bit of common courtesy) using the pronouns the individual prefers
 
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All in fun said:
To me, your comments make no sense. You suggest people should be called whatever they want. I will call people by whatever term fits my thought of what gender they look like. If they say they aren't that gender, then in almost all cases I'll say sorry, my bad, and move forward. But your thought is I should somehow guess whatever the other person wants me to say even if I know otherwise. That is an infringement on free speech, and since there is a potential legal penalty for it, it's terrible legislation. So any candidate that doesn't feel that way is one I wouldn't vote for. I have no interest in discrimination, but I don't support criminalizing speech except in very narrow circumstances. The legislation, to me, is abhorrent.
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This has nothing to do with 'guessing'... If a trans person corrects you on pronouns, and you apologize / use the ones they ask, end of story. If they correct you and you continue intentionally using the wrong ones... Now you've got discrimination.
 
Skerps said:
Oh man, now you’re really opening a can of worms talking about C16!

Repealing that doesn’t take away any rights of trans people - but it does, imho, fix the dangerous precedent of suppressing free speech that law has started down the path of... I think making issues of LGBTQ, etc, a thing should be long past us, the majority of Canadians don’t think twice anymore - live and let live. Just like the many ### people I work with, they themselves keep dragging drama up when it is a total non issue to everyone else. It’s noise. We should focus on other, more important, matters. I’m not trying to offend anyone, just my opinion...
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Repealing it quite literally takes away their right to be free from discrimination based on their gender identity/expression.

The only time this affects your speech is when you start being intentionally discriminatory; ie intentionally using the wrong pronouns or dead naming them
 
l!fealert said:
Repealing it quite literally takes away their right to be free from discrimination based on their gender identity/expression.

The only time this affects your speech is when you start being intentionally discriminatory; ie intentionally using the wrong pronouns or dead naming them
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Who decides whenever it was intentional or not? You?
 
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