Critique and comment on our Ruger 10/22 stock (goes into prototypeing this week!)

It's a good idea, but looks sort of... generic (and expensive for what you get as an end product - it's basically just another folding stock with a pistol grip & rails). There are so many alternatives out there you could go for instead.. why not make your own full size black AK-74 kit? The Krinker-plinker is already out there, but it's the shorty version.

A full size AK dress-up kit would be awesome... and people could keep their full size barrels for it. ;)
 
The full rail to rear is a good idea for utility , but for accuracy you still need something to alleviate stacking tolerances between dissimilar metals - {aluminum receiver, steel barrel} - for accuracy.
Put an allen screw in the rail screwing into the existing rear receiver scope mount hole to bond the rail to the barrel . What you have now unitizes the optics to the stock. Its better to unitize to the barrel but if not possible - to the receiver. It can turn your design into 1/2 MOA instead of 1 MOA.
 
762mm said:
It's a good idea, but looks sort of... generic (and expensive for what you get as an end product - it's basically just another folding stock with a pistol grip & rails). There are so many alternatives out there you could go for instead.. why not make your own full size black AK-74 kit? The Krinker-plinker is already out there, but it's the shorty version.

A full size AK dress-up kit would be awesome... and people could keep their full size barrels for it. ;)
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Thank you for the input! I feel that this stock will hold a very high quality of fit and finish hopefully more so than most other options. Not to mention it will be highly available to Canadians and will not take months to arrive. In my opinion, this stock will be head an shoulders above the typical synthetic options and hopefully a consideration for those Canadians shopping in the EVO, Rhineland, Nordic, etc.. ballpark.

As awesome as an AK dress up kit would be, they usually involve molded parts, stamped covers and the like. Not impossible, but kits like these don't hit upon the key types of features that can be produced in-house cost effectively.

What kind of a price would you (or anyone else) like to see? (realistically, ;) )
 
chopper 1 said:
The full rail to rear is a good idea for utility , but for accuracy you still need something to alleviate stacking tolerances between dissimilar metals - {aluminum receiver, steel barrel} - for accuracy.
Put an allen screw in the rail screwing into the existing rear receiver scope mount hole to bond the rail to the barrel . What you have now unitizes the optics to the stock. Its better to unitize to the barrel but if not possible - to the receiver. It can turn your design into 1/2 MOA instead of 1 MOA.
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Holes in the upper rail that tie into the holes in the reciever can be done pretty easily. There's going to be a pillar bedding system of very tight tolerances that by the nature of the design will also locate the barrel perfectly in the center of the stock.
 
Bender_Unit said:
What kind of a price would you (or anyone else) like to see? (realistically, ;) )
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Well... you have to remember that even though you have some seemingly interested people here right now, they may 'reconsider' buying it when it finally becomes available for 300$. After all, that is the price of a whole new 10/22 rifle...

I have no trouble believing that this is (or rather will be) a quality product, but an average user/small game hunter or shooter will rather buy a synthetic folding stock for 70$ instead or invest a couple more bucks in an awesome looking full kit (such as the Krinker). As for the price, all I can say that you (just like any other company) have to keep it fair and below what the competition sells them for; the EVOLUTION stock sells for $259 at Fabsports... I guess if you want to compete, yours should be in the low $200 range or even below. Fabsports sells it cheaper and they still don't manage to run out of stock on that particular item (while many other of their cheaper stocks are on back order) - which *could* be an indicator that the demand is not that strong, even at 259$.

I realize that the costs of production may not render it profitable to go below a certain cost (as your product is entirely custom made), but that's the market reality... people will go for the better deal, whether it's houses, cars, guns or anything else. It's important to make a detailed study of where you stand with this before launching into such a venture and giving your production facility a green light. Too few units and the unitary price will be too high, too many units and you'll end up with surplus stocks, which in turn cost you money that could've been spent (invested) elsewhere... The demand is the key in any business venture and always was/will be.

As for the demand itself, it is primarily manipulated by the uniqueness of the product (which you already seem to be attempting to achieve) and by its' price.

P.S. The pistol grip is too long and too far back on your design and not 'ergonomic' enough. Maybe that's just the computer not being able to draw a proper grip... but you should definitely slap an AR-style grip or something on that thing. :p
 
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762mm said:
Well...
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Thank you for the well thought out post. These are all things that weigh on my mind. Thankfully, by design the unit can be mfg'd with very minimal investment into tool and jig and as of now this is just a "downtime" project (thank you manufacturing economy!).

I know my possible profit margins and a little about my market, but the real test right now is the prototype, and what I'm about to learn about the bottom line of mfg viability. Chips might be flyin' tonight.

oh, and it does use an AR15 grip. The model looks slightly off because i threw together the mock-up grip in about 5 min's :D
 
ozzy said:
ok settled, just make it look like the gsg-5 with the sliding retrackable stock
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haha, lovin the MP5 inspired stocks eh? maybe i'll spend some time and see how MP5 "like" of a stock i can design as well. At least it lends itself towards my mfg capabilities a little better than others.
 
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Bender_Unit said:
I know my possible profit margins and a little about my market, but the real test right now is the prototype, and what I'm about to learn about the bottom line of mfg viability. Chips might be flyin' tonight.

oh, and it does use an AR15 grip. The model looks slightly off because i threw together the mock-up grip in about 5 min's :D
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Nice... Well, it might be a very nice design indeed then. When you produce your first units, let me know what the final price will be (a promotional pricing would be very welcome, lol). It would definitely look sharp on a blued 10/22 and a short target barrel that I'm planning to acquire in the next little while.

P.S. After taking a closer look at this thing, there's one major thing that would definitely improve visual appearance... you should extend the side walls of the unit (which are now partly covering the receiver) all the way up to the rail, leaving an exact opening only for the serial number/model info on one side and for the ejection port on the other. It would give the stock a really custom look (like some bad-ass submachine gun) and would improve the rail stability too. Do not forget to compensate your design for the gun disassembly, as the loading lever protrudes beyond the receiver (I am sure you're fully aware of it, but I' just mentioning it just as a reminder... as I've done such dumb mistakes in the past myself!) :eek:

I guess that for this to work, the stock will have to separate in two pieces in the middle, just below the ejection port (so that the rifle can be then disassembled in the traditional way). But I'm sure you will figure it out just right.

Another plus would be that people with stainless Rugers (like me) could also use it without ending up with a gun that looks like a ridiculous two-tone. :cheers:
 
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Here we go.. this is what I mean (the red dot was a personal touch, lol!) An entirely different look for just a little bit of extra metal... :D

Ruger10-22redesignedstock.jpg
 
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762mm said:
Here we go.. this is what I mean (the red dot was a personal touch, lol!) An entirely different look for just a little bit of extra metal... :D
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Haha, great work.

I re-worked the prototype to include that new feature. I also refined the AR socket area and bumped the grip foreward to look more normal. Actual 10/22 reciever is colour'd light grey.

bsc_mk3_1022_0asm.jpg
 
Its looking good, hopefully it will fast and easy to disassemble.

If its compatable with AR type buttstocks, other stocks could be added by the consumer like a folding stock, giveing it more of a SMG look, or something like this:

VZ58102-800px.jpg
 
Thanks. It should be pretty quick to get the 10/22 reciever/barrel out, 6 screws in this newest version which has been simplified a ton (both on the outside and the inside)

It will have a built in AR stock adapter. (and take AR grips)

Latest version:

bsc_mk1_1022_1asm.jpg
 
^ Looking good! It's getting to be more and more appealing, lol! The full receiver coverage of the latest unit is also a great way to reinforce the receiver and render it more safe to the shooter (in case of a receiver rupture due to fatigue or excessive pressure). This is not usually an issue in underpowered .22's, but it could be another thing that you could use to market this particular design.

:D

Overall, I think that you've got something really hot right there. The only other issue (as mentioned above) is to make sure it has the ability to be coupled with different types of stocks (AR style) for the different needs of your customers. A right out of the box barebone "stock-less" design (where people will then buy & attach the AR stock of their own choice) would be also cheaper to produce and cheaper to sell, so that's another big plus.

I think that the ability to attach AR grips is fantastic too for someone who wants to build a precision black .22LR semi. It's coming along very well... it's actually starting to set itself apart from everything else out there and gives the 10/22 a whole new range of possibilities. Now you just have to figure out what it's gonna cost to build and how much you're gonna be selling them for. ;)
 
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Very nice. Much better looks than the Gen-1 Evolution stock, IMO. That small change to the forend makes all the difference.

Is the top rail still removable (for use with regular 10/22 sights, or Tech-Sights)?
I know the 10/22 standard sights aren't great, but it provides the option to gradually build up the sighting system.
The Tech Sights are very good, and it would be good to be able to use them as well.
It would be great if you could offer an affordable, low-profile, adjustable BUIS (compatible with AR stocks, and your sliding stock).

Will you be retaining your sliding stock as an option (in addition to AR-style stocks), and position it low enough for use with the 10/22's standard sights?

I think that a price around the $200 range (chassis only, minus the stock and other options) would be reasonable, and position you favourably compared to the Evo.
 
^ Nah... the ability of using the standard 10/22 sights will render this design fugly. The whole "coolness" of this design is that it doesn't resemble the 10/22 at all and should be only used (preferably) with a target/sightless barrel.

The other thing about making the rail removable is precision. A fixed/permanent rail will have much more stability than a rail that's screwed in/removable. People who build their rifles with stocks such as these will usually be prepared to invest a little more and get a red dot, a holo-sight, a scope or other rail-mounted sighting systems.

If you really want to use iron sights, then something like the XCR sighting system would be in order... imagine how nice it would look then!

:eek:
 
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