custom actions

Maybe up here in the frozen north a lot are happy with reworking factory actions and saying they are just as competitive as a custom. I guess it all depends on the individual and the discipline.

In my discipline, SR BR 99% custom actions. The one Rem 700 that I know of is a competitive rifle but it had more than just a 150.00 rework. It was sleeved as well.

One can argue the point of factory versus custom forever.

You want to compete I say custom. You just play around in fun shoots or for yourself rework the action. Remember in the end a reworked action is still a Rem or Savage in my eye and not worth the resale value many try to get.

You want to PRETEND to be a tactical shooter or sniper doing the run and gun thing, go with a factory reworked it should give you what you need.

Like I said this debate is never ending.

The bottom line is go with what YOU want and not what the masses are telling you.
 
CyaN1de said:
I beg to differ on the price point being the same.

Custom actions START at $1000 and go up from there.

You can start with a plain Jane SPS for $600, pay a smith $150 to true it which puts total cost to $750.

You could stop there and have a wonderful platform to screw a custom barrel on, or one could up the ante and order a bolt to fit said action with a tighter tolerance for around the $200 mark. This option would then put the price on par with the low end (price wise) custom actions.

As Jerry mentioned.....a lot (but not all) of the customs are tight tolerance Rem clones. Barnard P is one that I know of that is not but does accept Rem style trigger groups.

The Barnard S model OTOH is a Rem clone.
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You "could" keep it under 1k -- but it's HARD. This game is more addictive than crack. (I can really only speculate on that - never tried crack...)

Building a Great 308 -- Look for a Rem700 SA on sale, or get lucky and find a used one...$600 is totally reasonable for one with a hunting barrel that ends up being a tomato stake, anyway.

Shilen or Krieger barrel: 280-ish
Blueprint action: 200
chamber and mount barrel: 250-300

That pus a "tuned" Remy that is ready for action into or over the 2k mark... And that doesn't count replacing the stock (800+bedding), or bedding the one that you have (100-200)... replacing the bolt handle(150-200). Perhaps swapping the bottom steel and internal mag with a more reliable detachable setup (holy-crap$$$). Maybe a slick new trigger (???? - I like the issued ones just fine)....

Good scope base and rings, plus scope should be as much as everything else put together - the glass will be the weak link if it is built right - so don't scrimp on it.

You can easily spend just as much money turning a rough stone into a jewel as you would just buying a custom gun ready -made. If you do it right, the end product can(should) shoot so darn good that "most" shooters can't tell the difference.

The GOOD thing about going the Remington route - is that they have the biggest pool of available aftermarket accurization (and also nonsense) accessories. They are simple and easy to accurize, compared to others. And if you're "new" to the sport, you can generally grab an out-of-the-box varmint rifle in 308 that shoots just fine for a few years until you are better and it needs a new barrel anyway.
 
The short answer is no, Customs are better then a Factory actions
In order to get the same features from a remington you would need to do the following

lap the lug
clean recut new barrel threads
square the front of the reciever
bush the front of the firinig pin
replace/correct firing pin spring asembly
these are the features you get in a custom that have to be corrected for on a factory some less so then others.

Does that mean you can't win or be happy with a remington. nope lots of folks are happy and have won with remington actions; but from a pure build prespective. custom actions are custom for a reason. the devil is in the detail

Trevor
 
It really depends on what kind of groups you want to shoot. In my experience, a factory action will shoot good with a good barrel. But if your trying to shoot 1/8" groups at 100 yards consistently, I'd go with a custom action and barrel.
 
Remington seemed to get a bad quality control wrap over the last bunch of years. Maybe an action from the factory could be so far outta wack that it could never be made to shoot well. This you may not know untill you throw lots of money at. And if a unauthorized gunsmith works on it, there is no factory warranty.

Custom actions are (suppsosedly) good to go with a warranty.

I own allot of factory actions and no customs so far. I hope to change this by getting at least one custom.

On the other hand, a factory actioned rifle seems to sell quicker in the EE then some or most of the customs. Certainly could be wrong here......
 
Canuck525 said:
I bet their guns are not off the shelf from wholesale sports. Think about it....
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I wonder if they're like us, start with a savage action and then put on a match barrel, bedding etc? It would be interesting to know what else they do to their actions?
 
It's true that you won't be seeing any Rem 700's at benchrest matches anymore. That discipline requires the best quality of every component to be competitive and because of that custom actions rule and are bought and sold regularly.

Mostly what you see in the EE is the selling of the Savage/Remington to the average shooter looking for something more accurate with budget in mind. The majority of them don't have deep pockets and are not ready for full blown custom rigs.
I recently saw a Hall M go for a reasonable price and that sold quickly. If I was into BR, I'd had bought that immediately.

When it comes to F-Class and Target Rifle there are different factors involved where customs actions won't make you the clear winner. Mind you F-Class is a hybrid of BR and TR and I recently bought a co-axial top for my Hart rest. I've used custom actions to win in the past, but am curious to see if a standard trued 700 can be competitive in F-Class again. I'm experimenting and having fun with that.
 
Something that was pointed out to me via PM, which I have to agree with.

A custom action may give you an advantage at SR-MR, but once you get into the LR stuff it comes down to the nut behind the butt.

An average shooter with the best of the best components will, 99.9% of the time lose to the better shooter with a lesser rifle.
 
CyaN1de said:
Something that was pointed out to me via PM, which I have to agree with.

A custom action may give you an advantage at SR-MR, but once you get into the LR stuff it comes down to the nut behind the butt.

An average shooter with the best of the best components will, 99.9% of the time lose to the better shooter with a lesser rifle.
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So what happens when you put a better shooter with a better rifle?
 
clatartar said:
So what happens when you put a better shooter with a better rifle?
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At this time, the mechanical limiting factor is the accuracy of the bullets used. Most LR VLD/Low drag type bullet will shoot in the 2's. Some lots in the 1's. Some in the 3's.

Some boutique brand stuff is more in the 1's then 2's so for some, worth the extra money.

No matter how premium the gear, the bullet's accuracy determines the best result.

For F class, the highest "scoring" ring is 1/2 min so a combo capable of 2's and 3's is plenty accurate. There are plenty of ways to reach this accuracy level at all budget levels.

However, the wind reading skills of most shooters isn't as good as this SO the true limiting factor becomes the shooter.

For comparison, SRBR gear can shoot in the 0's and 1's with enormous effort trying to keep it at these levels.

Doesn't sound like a huge difference but that is at least 50% more accurate.
Jerry
 
The one thing that can come to mind is that a crappy shooter with a $10k rig... Well, he can't be blaming the rifle now for his incompetence, can he? :D

(That would be my incompetence. :redface:)


I'll add that reading wind and distance (when not at a range with marked distances), is more of an artform, than a science. ;)
 
Mystic Precision said:
At this time, the mechanical limiting factor is the accuracy of the bullets used. Most LR VLD/Low drag type bullet will shoot in the 2's. Some lots in the 1's. Some in the 3's.

Some boutique brand stuff is more in the 1's then 2's so for some, worth the extra money.

No matter how premium the gear, the bullet's accuracy determines the best result.

For F class, the highest "scoring" ring is 1/2 min so a combo capable of 2's and 3's is plenty accurate. There are plenty of ways to reach this accuracy level at all budget levels.

However, the wind reading skills of most shooters isn't as good as this SO the true limiting factor becomes the shooter.

For comparison, SRBR gear can shoot in the 0's and 1's with enormous effort trying to keep it at these levels.

Doesn't sound like a huge difference but that is at least 50% more accurate.
Jerry
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Ok, so under a half min for F-Class.... But what if you want small groups for 600 yard br? 1000 yard br? It'll take more than a load that is "accurate enough" to win F-class.
 
The more you can eliminate from the equation the better, plain and simple. Therefore a rifle that is "capable" of shooting in the 0.1s will always have an ADVANTAGE over one that shoots in the 0.2s, ALWAYS. It is then up to the shooter what he does with that advantage.

As I said before; The guys who are consistently at the top of any shooting sport pay attention to DETAIL.
 
clatartar said:
So what happens when you put a better shooter with a better rifle?
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Wall full of 1st place trophies and the right to bug your buddy about how you kicked his ass on the 7hr ride home.

Be careful though because the second part has the potential of going the other way as well.

LOL
 
clatartar said:
Ok, so under a half min for F-Class.... But what if you want small groups for 600 yard br? 1000 yard br? It'll take more than a load that is "accurate enough" to win F-class.
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Please remember that for F class, the barrel continues to shoot UNDER 1/2 min when round counts get beyond 100rds fired. Some matches approach 200rds AND most do not clean.

Tuning for that type of fouling is way different then sports where you want/can clean every 10 rds.

So again, you need to understand the entire task of the sport. Not just the rules but its application during a match.

Each sport has its quirks. A 10lbs BR class will have different compromises then an unlimited one.

One set of rules that limits forends to 2.5" will show a different rifle then one where there is no such limit. And on and on.

There is no one size fits all. Not in precision shooting, if the podium is the goal.

Pick the sport you want to play in, understand the rule book, find the best combo for the task, then the most important part.

PRACTISE, PRACTISE, PRACTISE, AND PRACTISE SOMEMORE.

When you have the gear that will satisfy the task, then it is up to your skills to drive for the win.

Jerry
 
Canuck525 said:
The more you can eliminate from the equation the better, plain and simple. Therefore a rifle that is "capable" of shooting in the 0.1s will always have an ADVANTAGE over one that shoots in the 0.2s, ALWAYS. It is then up to the shooter what he does with that advantage.

As I said before; The guys who are consistently at the top of any shooting sport pay attention to DETAIL.
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For F class, that level of advantage is more for the confidence of the shooter then anything else.

BUT confidence is critical to the success in any sport.

So if that's what it takes for you to get into the groove, have at it.

However, I sincerely doubt that after 5 relays (85rds), there will be ANY combo that will still shoot in the 1's at any distance considered F class LR.

But anything is possible

Jerry
 
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