CZ 75 buffer pad

Soooo oh great self proclaimed CZ guru enlighten all as to why the pistol is designed to break the slidestop when no other brand is sacrificing parts like this. Design flaw plan and simple. I'm not saying CZ's are bad guns but, really here's some spare parts and this is the part number when you need more. And yeah DUDE parts wear out, not break which could cause even more damage. Throwing the part in the case with a brand new pistol is BS, correct the problem, it's not like they don't know about it, hell everyone knows about it.
 
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Actually they do, the locking block on Berettas for instance, also designed to be consumable parts, just like the slide stop on a CZ, and in fact the slide stop in a number of guns of a similar design. Breaking a slidestop won't cause damage to the gun, I've broken many, and usually the gun keeps running, but not always. Other guns are have lower overall service life expectations, and as such the entire gun isn't expected to last like a gun like CZ or Beretta does. Other designs, like Glock, require you to replace the barrel when the lug fails, which is actually fairly common, although the Glock fans (of which I am one) will tell the guns run forever blah blah. Barrel links in 1911's are the same thing. Although when people started using links that were too strong they just started wrecking barrels. Then of course there are the pins in the Glock which also need to be replaced regularly, especially in the 40s. Oh and don't forget about springs, those need to be replaced too, cuz they break. Any other questions or can you actually understand any of that?
 
The sky is falling the sky is falling. Christ what a lot of wasted spit.

I have never understood how the shot buffer protects the slide stop when the latter only comes under stress when the slide is moving forward not backwards. Perhaps my assumption is wrong. That said the only slide stop I ever broke on a CZ was a 1988 Pre B CZ 85 Combat. It had a smaller diameter slide stop and Gunnar opened up the opening and fitted the newer version of the slide stop. The gun had well ever 100K on it and it ran like a top. Sold it cuz it has the old style round cut in the slide for the rear sight, Should have kept it really. Someone has it out there and it likely is going to the range every day putting holes into paper exactly where the gun is aimed. Edited to add: It really wasn;t the slide stop that brike but the part on the right hand side of the fram that snapped the stop in place. There were no replacement parts so Gunnar drilled out the hole and installed the newer unit.

The CZ 75 has been around since well 1975. The SP-01 Shadow for all its well earned reputation is nothing more than a dressed up 75. 99% of the Shadows sold will never seen 10,000 rds much less 25,000. So what the heck is the fuss about. If a part breaks you replace it. CZ doesn't intentionally produce a part to break but parts do fail under use whether that be 1000 rds or 30,000. Not all slide stops fail under normal use and some fail under hard use. If CZ includes extra slide stops for competition guns they expect to be put to hard use.....terrific. If they don't and you are worried about a part failing buy some extras. Nobody has to attend a physics class to figure that one out.

If you really think the CZ line is worth avoiding buy a SIG 226 - JTF 2 uses them or a Glock the Seals use them...now or an M&P BC Sheriffs use them. Just remember all three have service departments for a reason - even Glock Armourers exist...hell I even know one.

Take Care

Bob
 
My pre-B came with a mashed up buffer. I left it out and that was a mistake. About 3000 rounds later I had a broken slide stop. I ordered new parts and springs from CZ Custom out of the US but they didn't have any buffers. But I've got a pretty nice shop so I made two of them from some UHMW PVC sheet stock I've got. At the same time I put in a new recoil spring.

Keeping an eye on the buffer for some time now and I'm not seeing any wear to it. There are marks that indicate that some contact is being made but apparently the slide isn't hitting with enough energy to mash the plastic out of shape. So I'm guessing that the new recoil spring is a good match to the ammo I shoot and taking up all or almost all of the energy before the slide hits the buffer. It'll take a long time to check this though. I've shifted to shooting my revolvers a lot more over the last couple of years and the old 75 that saw so much use earlier is now only seeing the light of day for around 1000 rounds a year for the past couple of years.

So the buffer is a sort of insurance option. If you take the time to match the recoil spring to the ammo you shoot no harm will come to the gun without a buffer. But how can you tell until the slide stop breaks or not a few thousand rounds down the road? Or you start out OK but the spring collapses and softens over some time due to use?

The beating or lack of a beating that the buffer takes can be used as a sign of how good a match the spring is to the ammo. Or if you switch between brands and power levels that buffer can prevent the slide beating up the slide stop with the stronger power level ammo.

And of course if you're a fan of a lighter recoil spring then you really should use a buffer. Often times unless you reload to a minimum power factor for competition that lighter spring is not going to absorb all the recoil energy. In that case the buffer is your last line of cushioning.... or you need to buy slide stops by the bag full.
 
Slide stops by the bag full....really. I have six CZ's and none have broken a slide stop. I have not used a reduced main spring either but then I have never replaced one either...well maybe one. May have to buy some of those buffers.

Bob
 
Slavex said:
Actually they do, the locking block on Berettas for instance, also designed to be consumable parts, just like the slide stop on a CZ, and in fact the slide stop in a number of guns of a similar design. Breaking a slidestop won't cause damage to the gun, I've broken many, and usually the gun keeps running, but not always. Other guns are have lower overall service life expectations, and as such the entire gun isn't expected to last like a gun like CZ or Beretta does. Other designs, like Glock, require you to replace the barrel when the lug fails, which is actually fairly common, although the Glock fans (of which I am one) will tell the guns run forever blah blah. Barrel links in 1911's are the same thing. Although when people started using links that were too strong they just started wrecking barrels. Then of course there are the pins in the Glock which also need to be replaced regularly, especially in the 40s. Oh and don't forget about springs, those need to be replaced too, cuz they break. Any other questions or can you actually understand any of that?
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I think you'd be surprised what I do and don't know about firearms in general and semi-autos. I know that the list of qualified gunsmiths, gun manufactures, and large number of companies who manufacture assorted springs do not recommend buffers by a large majority. Spring manufactures who reference buffers, on their web sites , always apply several caveats to their use, most don't reference buffers . CZ specialist Angus Hubdell is not on-board with the use of buffers. You mistakenly believe that your the smartest person in the room, or in this case the web site. I can if necessary reference the writings of some of the best smiths in the world who discussion recoil springs, and their thoughts on the use of buffers. Any experienced smith will state the pluses and minuses and all clearly state that their use comes with inherent problems. If you are as smart as you claim to be you may or may not be aware of these problems. Further these same smiths will layout how to properly tune for and install buffer if the pistol owner wishes to use them. The vast majority will state that the use of buffers is not necessary if the firearm is well maintained and recoil springs are changed on a regular bases. Detailed gunsmithing manuals will provide a through and detailed explanation on how the average shooter can check their springs with every cleaning. A simple home made tool can be fashioned to properly measure length and weight to maintain top performance of a semi-auto. Exceptional gunsmithing manuals will contain an entire chapter on how to tune for competition and load variations and none I have ever read discuss buffers beyond a final step IF NESSARY to get the pistol to shoot exactly as the owner desires. Simply throwing a buffer into a semi-auto pistol is not the great savior that so many uninformed shooters believe, and can cause more problems and potential damage to the pistol by transferring energy into areas of the pistol that the design did not allow for.
I strongly advise anyone thinking of using buffer do a through study on the subject before making their final decision. That means not on forum sites, such as this, and not sites that whole business model is geared to selling buffer. Go to sites that manufacture springs and read all the information they offer. Carefully read any and all information pertaining to buffers, if they even have any, and where they state the reason for their use.
 
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Or, just use a shock buff in your CZ and ignore ####s who have nothing better to do than argue. Or don't, and maybe have to replace a slide stop once in a while. Either way, go out and shoot.
 
I picked one up along with stainless guide rod, the lighter recoil spring and main spring. I will try shooting it with the buffer and new springs aswell as with the buffer but with stock springs. Whatever shoots the best is the configuration it will stay in.

Im sure my shadow will shoot more then 10k rounds since Ive been out twice with it and put 500 through it already, not sure it will hit the 100k mark though....
 
jon1985 said:
I picked one up along with stainless guide rod, the lighter recoil spring and main spring. I will try shooting it with the buffer and new springs aswell as with the buffer but with stock springs. Whatever shoots the best is the configuration it will stay in.

Im sure my shadow will shoot more then 10k rounds since Ive been out twice with it and put 500 through it already, not sure it will hit the 100k mark though....
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Good plan. At 250 rounds a range trip only 40 trips to the range and you will get your 10K in. That is roughly a year of shooting. 10 years later and you are at the magic 100K. Enjoy the gun no matter what you do to it the gun will serve you well.

Take care

Bob
 
snootworks said:
Or, just use a shock buff in your CZ and ignore ####s who have nothing better to do than argue. Or don't, and maybe have to replace a slide stop once in a while. Either way, go out and shoot.
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Argue? No spirited discussion. You have a choice on forum sites, join in, or move on. What exactly does your post add to the conversation? If this is the total of your knowledge on this subject you have likely run out of any more thoughts unless you would like to continue your troll activity and call posters a few more names.
 
grumpyold said:
Argue? No spirited discussion. You have a choice on forum sites, join in, or move on. What exactly does your post add to the conversation? If this is the total of your knowledge on this subject you have likely run out of any more thoughts unless you would like to continue your troll activity and call posters a few more names.
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One could ask you the same question - what does your overly wordy rhetoric add to the "discussion?" What you consider "trolling" is merely an observation of how, for some reason, you've turned a thread which specifically was geared towards the use of a buffer in CZ75 guns into a crusade against both the shock buffs and CZ's with an added dose of the usual "you don't know what I know because reasons" drivel.

Go ahead and post all of the data you reference. That's far more pertinent to the discussion than your opinion on what the data means.

Bottom line, both Slavex and myself shoot a LOT. We both use recoil buffers in CZ's. The CZ's we shoot came with them from the factory. We both see less slide stop failures in the CZ's that have buffers.

As a side note, your demeanor is best filed in the "go ##### yourself" category. While you may think it forms a vision of knowledge and wisdom because you've supposedly read things from people, the presentation just makes you sound like a jackass. If you don't like them, don't use them. A simple "I don't think they're necessary, never found a benefit in them" is sufficient. Why you're on a crusade to prove your internet prowess and maybe save someone a few dollars on a piece of plastic they may or may not benefit from is beyond me.
 
I am mindful that one experience a thousand times is not a thousand experiences.

Believing shok buffs have value is no more a fact than not believing shok buffs have value. Using your logic if I may, your gun came with a shok buff making the shok buffs necessary for use in the Shadow while my Shadow did not come with a shok buff so shok buffs are not necessary for use in the Shadow. My 75B New Edition didn't, nor did my 75 Shadowline or any of my 85 Combats so those guns should be ok without the buffs.

You don't do much for your argument when you tell someone to go ##### themselves. You might want to add your data to the conversation if you think it necessary for grumpyold to do so. Telling us you shoot "lots" isn't data, nor does it make you an expert on shok buffs. "Lots" of us shoot "lots" so saying your #### is "lots" bigger than his #### kinda gets lost in the conversation.

Personally if I was in a gun store it had shok buffs for the CZ on the counter I would pick a package up and try them. I assume you would agree the barrel moving forward with the slide is what causes the slide stop pin to eventually break. I was under the impression the shok buff prevented or reduced frame battering when the slide hit the back of the frame. No?

Take Care

Bob


I only have five CZ's and shoot only about 10K through them each year so I am not likely an authority on the subject but I can say none of the five show any sign of wear and none of the five have broken a slide stop.....yet.
 
Snootworks
Ahhh one of Slavex minions, wondered when they'd show up. Slavex's a big boy he can fight is own battles. Suggest you go back and read the post you refer to again. I suggested that anyone thinking of using buffers research the idea before jumping in. In the post reference was made about doing further research to set up properly if some one decides to use buffers. Also you will find reference to competition shooters which I would assume others would read as high round count. Canuck44 has posted his experiences and made a good point that shooters should be honest with them self as to round count weekly, monthly, or per year. The average shooter is better served by good maintenance and spring changes.
But let's not cloud the issue with facts. Let's use "I'm right your wrong, F##K YOU". Having a hard time seeing you and Slavex being friends, as you both have a big chip on your shoulder. Who's the..... yes man?
I'll do my best Donald Trump impersonation, "He started the crap talk first YO."
 
The fact that the buffers are a newer item that CZ has started selling, and including in guns that they expect high round counts in, seems to totally evade your abilities to discern Bob. And both you and Grumpyold are out of your depth. Neither of you has any specific training on the issue, and as such, your thoughts on this subject are quite meaningless. In order to have an opinion, at least one that means something, you need to actually have knowledge about the subject, neither of you do. I do, as much as it seems to bother both of you, I'm factory trained and supported, you're not.
 
Okay! I'll see your big mouth derogatory remakes and raise you my gunsmithing certificate. Like I said earlier it's entirely possible you don't know what I know. What are you going to do now? lLIke I' asked last time I challenged you and we went round and round with this subject, call or fold? I'll show you mine if you show me yours! Who's out of their depth now?
 
you can be a smith all you want dude, are you trained by the factory in Uhersky Brod? Are you supported by the factory? Oh, no, you're not.
 
Come on Rob you can do better than that. What specific engineering training have you had on buffers and in particular lecture us on the physics involved using buffers. You get some support from CZ and that makes you an expert on buffers? Do you know how many posts I have read prior to buffers being placed in CZ Shadow boxes crying for the need for same....that would be none that I can recall.

When it comes to commercial business practices, production issues and marketing I suspect I have a major leg up on you. I have witnessed some of the very best and worst in the field over some 40 years of commercial banking. Excuse me for being cynical but one endearing fact of the firearm business is their products tend to have very long useful lives, particularly when it comes to the retail market. One way to over come this is to introduce diversified products based upon the same platform. How many variations of the 226 are there? The Shadow will have at least three with the intro of the Shadow 2. (I ignore the variations CZ Custom, a joint holding of CZ and AngusA, makes. All of course cost more for essentially the same gun and produce marginally more profit. Tossing in a sample pack of buffers can represent a solution to a ongoing problem, or an attempt to squeeze a few more dollars down the road from unsuspecting but gullible shooters.

I have yet to hear how a shok buff that is struck by the recoiling slide protects the barrel lug from damaging the slide stop. The slide stop is struck, not by the rearward motion of the slide - that takes place prior to the buffer engaging the slide- but is struck by the barrel lug after the buffer has been hit by the slide on the barrels return to battery as the slide moves forward. I do know the it may protect the back of the frame from peening, though I have seen no evidence of that happening on any of my guns. I am all ears and use tech talk if you want I have a dictionary. Maybe it is harmonics and that might explain the need.

Take Care

Bob
 
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Buck up buddy. Last time we went round and round you told everyone who was listening that you went to the plant and on and on. I've been in the Harley planet on tours twice and the museum once. I'm running up on 8 years on my 4th Harley and I would never think of saying I'm a expert on Harley's. I understand that you have some sort of support from CZ but that does not make you a smith who can advise others? Instead of meeting some where in the middle you insist on being a know it all and feeding others your narrow minded view. What you do day by day does not fit the average shooter. Why would you advise a new CZ owner to install an item in their pistol that could jam up their gun? Show some responsibility in what you post. Does CZ know how you're representing their brand?
 
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Yup CZ knows exactly how I'm representing the brand, and when people throw out idiotic comments as both of you have done and then try to justify it through meaningless rhetoric it gets tiresome. I've already, in previous threads, explained exactly how the shockbuff assists in preventing slidestops from breaking, I also explained how the new Shadow 2 has even further enhancements to increase the life of slidestop. I've also explained why the slidestop is considered a consumable, given examples of other firearms that have similar parts that are consumables, and you two keep blathering on and on and on. My narrow minded view is exactly what the factory tells us when we are there. Just as it's what was explained at IWA this year when I was helping at the booth. There is no need for middle ground, are you going to go to Uhersky Brod and argue with the head of engineering about this? Are you going to talk to the guys in R&D and tell them to meet you in the middle?
Now the comment that CZ is somehow trying to squeeze money out gullible shooters. Jesus H fuking Christ Bob, seriously? How many fuking times do I need to write this? The buff costs 1 Eruo, over here maybe $5 , less in bulk. It will usually double the life expectancy of a slidestop, which now is what, $45. How does that equate to squeezing money out of gullible shooters exactly? Do the f'ing math Bob, you're a banker you can do that right? It actually ends up costing the shooter LESS money, and improves the life expectancy of the gun too. I swear to god dude it's like you're being purposely obstinate about this.
 
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