CZ 75 buffer pad

75 is not 75

After all the recoil buffer talk I decided that I need to try one in my CZ 75B Shadow Line so I ordered some from Dlask and they came today. Just for reference my gun has the slide without FLDC, the slide does not have a hole in the front for the recoil rod and the rod is very short. Now for the questions, I can not figure out which way to install the buffer, yep I get that the flat edge goes toward the barrel but I can't figure out which is front and which is back. It is completely flat on one side with a protrusion on the other side.

The buffer, as is will not work, won't allow my slide to go far enough back to engage the slide lock. I know that CZ europe does sell buffers for the CZ 75 Shadow Line but perhaps they are thinner. I could sand the protrusion off and try it like that but not sure I want to mess with it if isn't going to work.

The other thing I can't figure out is how or what the buffer does, it does not seem like it can ever come in contact with the slide or frame and to me it just seems like it would cushion the spring? Please note that I am new to CZ's so please have a little patience with my perhaps silly questions.



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Ok I have done a little more digging on the CZ europe site and they do indeed have different buffers. On the left is the SP01 buffer and is what I got from Dlask. The ones on the right are what they show for the CZ 75 Shadowline. From the picture it appears that it does not have the protrusion that the SP01 has. It's kind of hard to judge the thickness and I am still wondering if I should try sanding one as an experiment?

Since this is related to the recoil buffer, what do you think about shortening Recoil Rod Springs? I ordered an 11lb and 13lb from Dlask and I will have to shorten them in order to use them as they are both 110mm longer than my stock spring, plus add in the thickness of the buffer.

Confused as usual.
 
McTryk said:
After all the recoil buffer talk I decided that I need to try one in my CZ 75B Shadow Line so I ordered some from Dlask and they came today. Just for reference my gun has the slide without FLDC, the slide does not have a hole in the front for the recoil rod and the rod is very short. Now for the questions, I can not figure out which way to install the buffer, yep I get that the flat edge goes toward the barrel but I can't figure out which is front and which is back. It is completely flat on one side with a protrusion on the other side.

The buffer, as is will not work, won't allow my slide to go far enough back to engage the slide lock. I know that CZ europe does sell buffers for the CZ 75 Shadow Line but perhaps they are thinner. I could sand the protrusion off and try it like that but not sure I want to mess with it if isn't going to work.

The other thing I can't figure out is how or what the buffer does, it does not seem like it can ever come in contact with the slide or frame and to me it just seems like it would cushion the spring? Please note that I am new to CZ's so please have a little patience with my perhaps silly questions.



1091-1247_zps6upm6qke.jpg
1091-1246_zpsjf9rnoew.jpg


Ok I have done a little more digging on the CZ europe site and they do indeed have different buffers. On the left is the SP01 buffer and is what I got from Dlask. The ones on the right are what they show for the CZ 75 Shadowline. From the picture it appears that it does not have the protrusion that the SP01 has. It's kind of hard to judge the thickness and I am still wondering if I should try sanding one as an experiment?

Since this is related to the recoil buffer, what do you think about shortening Recoil Rod Springs? I ordered an 11lb and 13lb from Dlask and I will have to shorten them in order to use them as they are both 110mm longer than my stock spring, plus add in the thickness of the buffer.

Confused as usual.
Click to expand...

For the SP-01 Shadow the smooth side goes forward.
 
I am sorry Rob I should have done a search.
Here you go.

March 20
People are being raped at $60 a part.
And, actually CZ has addressed this with the new Shadow 2. As explained to me by the lead engineer, better concentricity of the slide stop hole results in less breakage, along with some tuning of the holes edges. It will still break, as it is a wear part, but will last longer.​
​

March 23
The shockbuffs do a ton to help stop them breaking at lower round counts and the newer generation of stops last a lot longer.​

April 1
it's not needed if you don't mind breaking slidestops and causing unneeded wear and tear on your gun. All the new models are shipping with them, that says a lot​

Did I miss an explanation. It seems sometime between March 20 when the lead engineer explained to you why the slide stop apparently was breaking and the corrective action taken by CZ and what you have concluded since then appears to be at odds. Was improving the design, as suggested by the lead engineer you personally spoke to wrong, or your shok buff that solved the problem.

While today it is a consumable part it was in March a wear part which makes a bit more sense. I agree with you that 90% of us will never have to worry about the slide stop breaking anyway.

You see Rob I may be an idiot but a sharp minded individual like you can see the obvious contradiction. My 75 Shasowline which works wonderfully, I tried a prototype of the gun three or four years ago at the WA State IDPA match and decided then and there I had to have one, did not come with buffers and frankly, as you correctly point out in an earlier post of yours they really are not needed by 90% of shooters. That would apply to me and that particular gun. I do not often use my CZs in IDPA. I prefer the lighter M&P for that sport. Unfortunately the Shadow2 is to heavy for IDPA at 46 oz. much heavier than the existing Shadows.

March 23
For 90% of shooters they will never shoot enough to ever worry about it. For the higher volume shooters the cost of a slidestop is pretty meaningless compared to the ammo costs, even if they reload. I'd rather be replacing slidestops than barrels or frames like people with other brands do.​

Sorry Rob I never did find your post that explained how the shok buff prevented the slide stop from breaking. I did look. I did see where you said the buffers did a ton of work. Just missed what the ton consisted of. Must have been before you quoted the lead engineer. Your post of March 23 is correct. For 90% of shooters the slide stop breaking is a none issue. I would suggest the same shooters will never experience frame peening from the slide either which really is one of the jobs the shok buff might do and likely one part of the tons of work you suggested earlier.

I did find the best advice on the subject posted by my friend BC RIDER where he suggest not dropping the slide on an empty chamber might extend the life of the Slide Stop. As you know for us who use the guns in our competitions that happens at least once every stage which no doubt contributes to the shorter life of the slide stop on yhe CZ.

I went back 158 of your posts which is all available to us.

Take Care

Bob
ps I have been called an idiot by more informed folks than you my friend so no offense taken. I will chalk it up to your bruised ego and move on.
 
CZ parts are a real son of witch to get. Everyone is "SOLD OUT" if you are sold out 24/7 maybe its a hint you should buy more than 2 ? Who ever sells CZ should be forced to carry extra barrels and spring. I don't get gun stores they are always sold out "well it's expensive to keep stock" uh hello it's expensive for me you take my business somewhere else. SFRC is always sold out... here is a HINT buy lots and lot of your popular products.
 
McTryk said:
Since this is related to the recoil buffer, what do you think about shortening Recoil Rod Springs? I ordered an 11lb and 13lb from Dlask and I will have to shorten them in order to use them as they are both 110mm longer than my stock spring, plus add in the thickness of the buffer.

Confused as usual.
Click to expand...
I tried to upgrade my 75 Shadowline and case across the same issues. On the CZFORUMS Angus Hob dell stated that in order to fit the 11lbs recoil spring in any of the 75/85 models (without the rail), you would have to shorten the spring by clipping off about 2 coils. This is without the buffer. Could be more with one. I wish someone would bring in the slim buffers for the 75/85.
 
Pistolwhiptricks said:
I tried to upgrade my 75 Shadowline and case across the same issues. On the CZFORUMS Angus Hob dell stated that in order to fit the 11lbs recoil spring in any of the 75/85 models (without the rail), you would have to shorten the spring by clipping off about 2 coils. This is without the buffer. Could be more with one. I wish someone would bring in the slim buffers for the 75/85.
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What are you trying to accomplish by using a reduced recoil spring. The gun functions with the recoil spring it comes with using 125 gr bullets at and around 130 power factor. Are your splits so fast the gun is not ready to fire when you go to fire your second shot on a double tap. If not why make the change....because some of the best shooters in the world do. They are not the best shooters in the world because they use a 11# recoil spring....that you can be sure of.

Take Care

Bob
 
I broke 5 slide stops in my first Shadow. Round count was about 50,000 when I sold it and it's still running strong. I used 13 pound recoil spring shooting mostly BDX reloads with no shock buff...was unable to find one at the time. Replacing recoil spring every 5000 rounds has helped.
 
McTryk said:
........Since this is related to the recoil buffer, what do you think about shortening Recoil Rod Springs? I ordered an 11lb and 13lb from Dlask and I will have to shorten them in order to use them as they are both 110mm longer than my stock spring, plus add in the thickness of the buffer......
Click to expand...

Shock buffer or no shock buffer you still want to use the strongest spring that still allows for reasonably energetic case ejection and a reliable locking open at the last shot. So start with an unmodified 13 and see how it works out. If it produces a weak ejection that only tosses the brass a foot or less to the side and you find stove pipe jams occurring or if the slide fails to lock back at the last shot on occasion then try clipping a couple to three of coils off the spring. If that still produces these problems THEN switch to the 11 lb spring and try again.

The idea is that all the recoil energy wants to be soaked up by the spring to where the slide just kisses the slide top or buffer and no more than that. When the spring does all the work it's easier on the gun and has the least felt recoil shock into your hands. A well tuned gun in this way should never break a slide stop or beat a buffer to death.

In following this idea I like to aim for my ejected casings to arc out about a yard to the side before falling below the gun. That's how my CZ's work and it seems to be working well enough for me. My "no buffer" Shadow is up around 20K through it and still has the original stop. My older 75 came with a beat up buffer that I left out. That should have been a clue but I was rather clueless and just left it out. Surprise, surprise! That gun broke a slide stop after around 4K to 5K. I ordered new recoil springs (stock) and when they came they were quite a bit stiffer than the one which was in the gun. For insurance I made myself a buffer from some 3/16 UHMW I had. But the new STOCK springs being stiffer are soaking up the energy much better now and the buffer hardly seems to get touched.

With this sort of setup both my CZ's are tossing the brass out to the side by about a yard before the brass falls below my hand. They land about 2 or 2 and a bit yards away on the ground. I don't use my Shadow as much for matches anymore but the 75 hasn't had a jam that I can recall since I installed the new spring and home made buffer around 2K rounds back. Well, other than Blazer aluminium. It hates that stuff. But the brass Custom Reloading ammo hasn't jammed at all.

I think the 11lb spring deal is valid only if you're reloading your own ammo and shooting for a PF which is on the ragged edge. It may also help when shooting 147's where the recoil impulse is softer and spread out more.

By the way, using a heavier spring means that your slide returns into battery sooner as well. When the spring stores the recoil energy instead of letting it hammer the slide stop there's more energy to push the slide back into battery. And that means a faster return and a more certain return. So again that's another advantage for tuning the gun correctly with a spring that is as strong as it needs to be without being overly strong.

The ammo I'm shooting is reloaded 125's from Custom Reloading which I understand they load to around a PF of 135. So a bit stronger than needed for competition "just to be safe" but not as strong as some commercial ammo.
 
i have put several thousand rounds of rather hot handloads through my stainless 75B since I picked it up a couple months ago. No issues yet...
 
B, did your gun come with a buffer? Either way if you're up around 3 or 4K strip it and inspect for signs of beating the buffer or impact peening on the slide stop. If you have either then you really need to stick to regular ammo. If you insist on shooting hot ammo that produces these marks then you really should consider the next power up recoil spring. But if you have a buffer and it's hardly marked at all or if there's no signs of peening on the slide stop shaft then there's no harm being done.

Generally I like to let the flight of the casings tell me what's going on. If you're tossing brass out to three stations over then you're likely a candidate for a little stronger a recoil spring. Two to three yards before it touches ground is about what to aim for.
 
I'm sitting around 6000 from my best guess. No buffer in the gun but I'm considering one since they are cheap, I figure why not. I don't compete but I do hit the range 2-3 times a week. Aside from some minor wear along the barrel the pistol is in great shape. I run it well lubed and clean often. It's working for me so far.
 
BCRider it is common for competition shooters when asked to drop the slide when unloading just hit the slide stop lever allowing the slide to slam forward on an empty chamber. Would this contribute to the slide stop breaking? Seems like it might. As Slavex has indicated most shooters are not high volume users so the likliehood of the slide stop pin breaking is not high. The old transition model 75 Combat I had a ton of rounds through it when the part that held the slide stop in on that model broke. . The pin was much thinner than the pins they now use and gunner simply bored out the slide to allow for the newer stop to be used. I assume the gun is still running faithfully for someone as I traded the gun in shortly after for a Shadow. None of my CZ's show any sign of peening the frame so I have pretty much decided to not bother with the buffers. I run 13# springs in all my CZ's with the loads I use.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
BCRider it is common for competition shooters when asked to drop the slide when unloading just hit the slide stop lever allowing the slide to slam forward on an empty chamber. Would this contribute to the slide stop breaking? ......

...None of my CZ's show any sign of peening the frame so I have pretty much decided to not bother with the buffers. I run 13# springs in all my CZ's with the loads I use.
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So far all the discussion relates to the buffer. And the buffer only comes into play during the rearward travel of the slide. During dropping into battery on a "slide forward" motion other things come into play. And if you listen to a CZ slide drop you'll hear a fair amount of rubbing and things going on. It's not the solid and "two hammer heads hitting" like CLACK! heard in a lot of 1911's. So I tend to think that the stop shouldn't be seeing the same impact as with a snappy rearward action that impacts with a lot of excess energy.

The other thing is that goes on with the slide stop is that the barrel lug slot rides on the cross pin to control the tilt during the forward and rearward motion. I would think that a proper design would allow the lower edge of the chamber mouth to come to rest on the bed in the frame before the end of the slot in the lug hits the slide stop's cross pin. I'll have to check that and see if this is the case. Certainly I've not seen any signs of the barrel lug on my guns impacting the front face of the "wall" in the frame. So that suggests that the barrel's rear and down motion is being stopped by something other than the lug. That's a good thing mind you. But only if it's not the slide stop pin doing the stopping. Or perhaps this is how it is intended and was done with the idea that the slide stop is a consumable item.

This thread has me second guessing a lot of the things going on in my CZ's. I'm going to spend a bit time on them later today and see what hits what and where they hit and just what things actually hit the slide stop pin. More to come......

In the meantime though you say there's no wear or impact peening in your gun. To help validate my idea of casing ejection can you comment on my suggestion that we want to see the brass fall past our hands about a yard out and impact the ground 2 to 3 yards away?
 
BCRider said:
Either way if you're up around 3 or 4K strip it and inspect for signs of beating the buffer or impact peening on the slide stop.

Generally I like to let the flight of the casings tell me what's going on. If you're tossing brass out to three stations over then you're likely a candidate for a little stronger a recoil spring. Two to three yards before it touches ground is about what to aim for.
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BCRider thank you for the informative posts. I am shooting BDX in both 124 and 147 and I would like the option of tuning following your guidelines. The Shadow Line is new to me so I'm not sure where I am at just yet. I am going to try modifying the buffer I have to see if it will work. I am going to cut the springs I have, the 11lb and 13lb (not the stock one) as I really don't think they will work as is because the short guide rod does not support the spring when the slide is closed. With the short slide stop the spring has to be the right length.

How do you inspect for Impact Peening on the slide stop, is it a deformation?

Thanks again
 
BC Rider my brass lands at about the 3 yard mark with vigor. My recently purchased New Edition might be a tad shorter. All my CZ's toss the brass further than my M&P's. I prefer the more aggressive ejection of the CZ's. Combined usage for my four main CZ pistols will not exceed 2K this year unless my shoulder heals up. I don't expect to be replacing and slide stops in the near future. Right now I am shooting my M&P Pros in 9MM and 40 cal and my SIG 226. They are lighter and are easier on the shoulder.

McTryk the peening or lack there of I was referring to was that what might occur as the slide recoils and potentially hits the frame. Other than rubbing marks I have never seen impact peening on the slide stop proper. The buffer would be in front of the area of the frame that might see peening.

Take Care

Bob
 
McTryk said:
BCRider thank you for the informative posts. I am shooting BDX in both 124 and 147 and I would like the option of tuning following your guidelines. The Shadow Line is new to me so I'm not sure where I am at just yet. I am going to try modifying the buffer I have to see if it will work. I am going to cut the springs I have, the 11lb and 13lb (not the stock one) as I really don't think they will work as is because the short guide rod does not support the spring when the slide is closed. With the short slide stop the spring has to be the right length.

How do you inspect for Impact Peening on the slide stop, is it a deformation?

Thanks again
Click to expand...

Yep, you're looking for deformation that looks like you were hitting that spot repeatedly with the corner of a hammer. "Peening" is a metal worker's term for disrupted metal caused by repeated blows. Such as the old solid rivets which were "peened" to mushroom them out. You see this on old cold chisels or heavily used pin punches where the striking head is mushroomed out. The same thing can happen when a small hard point repeatedly hits a softer piece of metal.

Don't forget that the dust cover and lower shroud on the slide supports the spring from the outside as well. This along with the rounded front end of the guide rod is enough to hold the spring in place well enough and to guide the coils onto the rod well enough. So I wouldn't cut the spring right off the bat until you try it. Also the springs are intended to seat in place with a good amount of compression already in the spring. That's called "preload" and it's a big part of holding the slide from moving too soon as part of the delayed blowback style of operation.

So really any trimming you do is going to be very minor and only make up for the thickness of the buffer if you trim at all.

Bob, thanks for the confirmation that my memory on the distance isn't playing tricks on me.... :d
 
Ottawa said:
CZ parts are a real son of witch to get. Everyone is "SOLD OUT" if you are sold out 24/7 maybe its a hint you should buy more than 2 ? Who ever sells CZ should be forced to carry extra barrels and spring. I don't get gun stores they are always sold out "well it's expensive to keep stock" uh hello it's expensive for me you take my business somewhere else. SFRC is always sold out... here is a HINT buy lots and lot of your popular products.
Click to expand...

I'm sold out because people keep buying them and there no more in the country to buy. When new shipments arrive we buy them....
 
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