15 meters head shot with G22 are possible and not so difficult once You'll get use to the trigger, so it's not the pistol, but the operator.
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CZ 75 or Glock 17 for home defense?
- Thread starter Slothy
- Start date
15 meters head shot with G22 are possible and not so difficult once You'll get use to the trigger, so it's not the pistol, but the operator.
Look, whenever the question is function and reliability the answer is always glock. When the question is about form, trigger, comfort etc etc etc all the stuff that means nothing in an sd scenario, the answer is never glock. Hopefully this ends every discussion ever had about Glocks.
I dont understand how anyone could suggest a glock will be a more reliable gun than anything else if all it does is sit in a safe. How would any gun become "unreliable" if its never being used? Maybe im missing something but if you put a perfectly functioning gun into a locked safe, pull it out, and it doesnt work... its not a very "safe" safe. If your going to CARRY a gun every day, reliability would certainly be a factor... but for a dormant home defence gun?
I am sorry to say that I think you have been watching to much TV. Sorry to say also but I think it would suit you best to become part of the solution rather then being part of the problem. Just my two cents worth here.
Graydog
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"...in Canada your not allowed..." Not exactly true, but close. You'd be charged with a slew of offences, most of which are FA inspired.
In any case, to defend yourself with a handgun you must be a very good shot and practice regularly with the firearm and ammo. A handgun that gets 'stashed' here and there isn't likely one you'd be practicing with.
In any case, to defend yourself with a handgun you must be a very good shot and practice regularly with the firearm and ammo. A handgun that gets 'stashed' here and there isn't likely one you'd be practicing with.
I'd buy the CZ Rami, a little more compact than the full size 75, easier to hide where ever you need to hide it and less subject to grip pressure than a Glock. You can likely find Glocks for 1/2 the price of CZ 75's in the U.S.. Two glocks would be better than one cz.
Ammo choice may be more critical than pistol choice as both guns are good choices.
124gr work mighty fine in that little 3" rami.
Ammo choice may be more critical than pistol choice as both guns are good choices.
124gr work mighty fine in that little 3" rami.
you must be getting old greydog and live in a nice neighbourhood. I truly hope thats the case. as for many in urban areas you will find crackheads who are just about as wild as you could imagine. have you watched the news in the U.S. in the past year and watched the crimes guys jacked up on drugs have committed? Its a wild world man, fortunately many of us are insulated from it, unfortunately not all of us are. I have been accosted in a rural area by a crackhead who was as wild as the op mentioned, fortunately I had a fast car and was able to jump in and elude.
Yes dizzy I do live in a nice rural area and yes I am getting old. What I am saying is not that you should not be able to defend yourself but rather that I took exception to the OP's statement that he would shoot anyone and then put a I love Charles Manson shirt on them. That is what I took exception to, by making atatements like that he is as bad as all ther idiots that live in the USA.
What happens if one night he hears someone in his house and he thinks he is being robbed and he runs down stairs in the dark with his new handgun with the mounted light on it and ends up shooting one of his own Kids who for whatever reason is sneaking back into the house or sneaking out? What then?
The very best thing you can do is start by making lots of noise and putting every light on that you can in the house. If you have a intruder they are most likely going to try and get away as fast as they can. Not all this Ranbo crap that you see on TV every night.
That is what I am talking about nothing else.
Graydog
What you are saying cant be overlooked. Many good people have been shot before being identified. You are right many think it cool to have to shoot someone right up until they have to pull the trigger. It's not a glorious thing to do. Sometimes it the right thing but its still never cool to have to do.
As Dizzy just said, these very unfortunate incidents have and will occur. Human error simply cannot be taken out of the equation. What I would be interested in knowing however is how often, percentage wise, it actually does happen in the case of home invasion. 5%...2%..less...more?
I think it would be best to assume that homeowners who are faced with dealing with such a high stress situation will do everything in their power to identify the unidentified person in their dwelling before taking any and all lethal action. IMO your (immediate) assumption that things will more often then not turn out bad is flawed.
If I were allowed to use a firearm for home defense, I'd be most concerned about having to use it while half asleep in the middle of the night. To me, nothing would beat a 11.5" barrel AR15 with Mk262 ammo. The extra point of contact on the shoulder with the buttstock would be crucial in keeping the gun pointing where it should be and making the shots count.
That said, this is the pistol forum section and if I were going to use a pistol for home defense (which I probably wouldn't as pistol rounds travel through far more drywall than 5.56 does - google it!), but I'd just use whatever I had the best muscle memory or familiarity with. Whatever you can draw and shot the fastest is what you want, no matter how ugly or unpopular it is.
That said, this is the pistol forum section and if I were going to use a pistol for home defense (which I probably wouldn't as pistol rounds travel through far more drywall than 5.56 does - google it!), but I'd just use whatever I had the best muscle memory or familiarity with. Whatever you can draw and shot the fastest is what you want, no matter how ugly or unpopular it is.
The choice of gun is not really important. The choice of calibre is not really important. The questions that are important are:
1) technique: how do you deal with a SUSPECTED intruder? Do you have a plan? Does it include the possibility of friends, family or neighbours bumbling into your home? Does it include non lethal action for the otherwise good kid who just got too drunk and tried to get into the wrong house? Does it include kids playing Nicky Nicky nine doors, as well as hardened rapists and murderers? Do you have a plan for when they come in a different window. What if they just kick down doors. What if you come home and they are already in? Is the right answer to fight, or run? There is an infinite set of possibilities to deal with and I for one wished people would put half the thought they put into choosing guns and calibre into the actual scenarios they are thinking of dealing with. There would be a lot less dead innocents, and a lot fewer people with lives ruined for it. Trayvon Martin being only a recent example where both sides lost apparently for no good reason.A bigger question for those who are worried about being groggy when woken in the night by an intruder, you are not seeing the whole issue. Murderers don't always come in the night. It may happen in broad daylight, or just when you are on your way to work, or while you are in the shower, or when you are coming home drunk from a party, or when you are unpacking the van after coming back from a weekend camping trip. Maybe you threw a party that got out of control and some undesirables got in by friends of friends etc... Lethal confrontations don't always follow your script.
2) ability: are you capable to respond to a lethal confrontation? Training, ability and familiarity with the tool of choice is paramount, but no less important is your will to live, your ability to do harm to others to protect yourself and loved ones. Can you get over any psychological barriers? As for being half asleep, adrenaline cures that quickly, but gives you tunnel vision and decreased motor and judgement skills.
3) legality: the irony of an American asking a Canadian for opinions on home defence is not lost on me. You must be prepared to deal with the financial, and legal repercussion of home defence. In the us the castle doctrine would protect most people, but in Canada you will pay for your self defence. The legal bills are staggering and out of reach for your average Canadian. You also risk jail under murder charges unless you act according to a very specific set of legal requirements. Don't even consider armed home defence unless you are willing to consult the actual statutes, and a lawyer. I hear many say that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by six, but ask yourself if that is true. This comes back to the 1st part. What is your plan? Can you get out of this non-lethally? Can you barricade yourself and call the cops and just wait it out? That is preferable to bankrupting legal bills and a potential life in jail for murder.
1) technique: how do you deal with a SUSPECTED intruder? Do you have a plan? Does it include the possibility of friends, family or neighbours bumbling into your home? Does it include non lethal action for the otherwise good kid who just got too drunk and tried to get into the wrong house? Does it include kids playing Nicky Nicky nine doors, as well as hardened rapists and murderers? Do you have a plan for when they come in a different window. What if they just kick down doors. What if you come home and they are already in? Is the right answer to fight, or run? There is an infinite set of possibilities to deal with and I for one wished people would put half the thought they put into choosing guns and calibre into the actual scenarios they are thinking of dealing with. There would be a lot less dead innocents, and a lot fewer people with lives ruined for it. Trayvon Martin being only a recent example where both sides lost apparently for no good reason.A bigger question for those who are worried about being groggy when woken in the night by an intruder, you are not seeing the whole issue. Murderers don't always come in the night. It may happen in broad daylight, or just when you are on your way to work, or while you are in the shower, or when you are coming home drunk from a party, or when you are unpacking the van after coming back from a weekend camping trip. Maybe you threw a party that got out of control and some undesirables got in by friends of friends etc... Lethal confrontations don't always follow your script.
2) ability: are you capable to respond to a lethal confrontation? Training, ability and familiarity with the tool of choice is paramount, but no less important is your will to live, your ability to do harm to others to protect yourself and loved ones. Can you get over any psychological barriers? As for being half asleep, adrenaline cures that quickly, but gives you tunnel vision and decreased motor and judgement skills.
3) legality: the irony of an American asking a Canadian for opinions on home defence is not lost on me. You must be prepared to deal with the financial, and legal repercussion of home defence. In the us the castle doctrine would protect most people, but in Canada you will pay for your self defence. The legal bills are staggering and out of reach for your average Canadian. You also risk jail under murder charges unless you act according to a very specific set of legal requirements. Don't even consider armed home defence unless you are willing to consult the actual statutes, and a lawyer. I hear many say that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by six, but ask yourself if that is true. This comes back to the 1st part. What is your plan? Can you get out of this non-lethally? Can you barricade yourself and call the cops and just wait it out? That is preferable to bankrupting legal bills and a potential life in jail for murder.
Ah, you have captured my skill level: Presently, I suck rather badly, shooting low and a bit to the right. However, I am working on it and getting a bit better, sucking a bit less. I've shot Glocks and FN FNS 9mm, but have not yet fired DA/SA hammer fired hand guns. I think they cause me a bit of trepidation, and that is why I am a bit torn between the Glock or the CZ 75. I know that I really need to try the CZ 75, too. However, right now, I'm just trying to get a feel for reliability/parts availability/quality, etc.
