cz 858 bore rust

NeitArms said:
The point being that if you rely on water and windex to clean your rifle it's going to rust. Hot water will help to flush salts from the rifle but just because the salts are gone doesn't mean that it wont rust...

As for the total Windex farce... Windex is mostly water and when you use it you are actually getting the flushing effects of the water that is removing the salts. Standard Ammonia alone will not dissolve these salts, however Ammonia‐d3 will if you want to spend the extra money ont hat product. But the contact time that this product has with the salts is likely not as effective as the flushing effect of the water. Hot water helps speed the process of putting the salts into solution and flushing them out. So if you want to use $8 bottles of water to clean your rifle, have at 'er... but you've been had. When I got out of the Infantry the Queen was nice enough to send me to school to take Env Eng and I spent a lot of time doing Organic Chemistry. I can draw you a picture if you want to show you why household ammonia will never dissolve any salt, but the carrier solution it is in... water... will.

If it's an utter and total clean you're looking for (no battle rifle should ever be cleaned spotless) Flush with regular, free HOT tap water, and then clean as per.

However if you want to clean it like it's a rifle... brush/jag the barrel, wipe and oil the surface of the rifle. Done. An oiled rag/patch is more than capable in wiping off salts. I have more rounds down the barrel of my test VZ than 90% of the VZs here COMBINED and I have never put water, windex, WD, etc on my rifle; and it has never rusted. (aside from the gunzilla v s clp vs bare metal test we did) What I do use is the supplied cleaning kit, patches and oil.


The point is.. if your rifle is left dry it will rust.. every time. If you keep it OILED.. it will never rust. If you want to reduce the time it takes to clean this way get a product like Gunzilla (plug) that can preserve and dissolve salts in one.
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Glad somebody said it. I just about only shoot corrosive, 8mm, 7.62x54, 7.62x39 etc & have not used windex or water in 5 years. No rust yet! I do clean them (with solvent) & keep them well oiled though.
 
lone-wolf said:
Doesn't the instruction sheet for gunzilla say to use hot water before gunzilla?
Click to expand...

Actually it says "the effectiveness (when cleaning corrosive ammo) of Gunzilla can be increased by running a patch soaked in water over the parts first".

Doesn't say boil it in a vat of windex, or pressure spray it with water, or make some overly complicated series of pipes and funnels.. a patch soaked in water is all that is required to take the dry salts, put them in solution so that the CLP can wipe them away and protect behind it.


You guys are trying to make something overly complicated out of something simple like maintaining your weapon. I can go out, shoot 1000 rnds in an afternoon, come home and clean it to a battle rifle standard so that it'll operate properly next time I pick it up in 10 mins max with a issued cleaning kit and a good CLP. If it's going to sit for an extended period of time you may have to reoil it from time to time. If your weapon gets rusty it's probably because you're not maintaining it, not because of the ammo you shoot.
 
I agree 100% that it should generally be a simple thing and that there is no earthly reason oiled metal ought to rust...

And I can honestly say I've never had a problem with any other gun.

However the bore on my 58 is, for some reason I do not understand, more prone to rust than anything I've ever encountered. It is the only time I have ever had to try several different products before finding that I could actually leave the gun alone for a while without it turning brown inside. I am used to a quick clean and oil being sufficient...however I find with the 58 I must be substantially more thorough.

I have actually wondered whether there is a batch of barrels out there (including mine) made out of different steel than others...like a pure iron and carbon mix! I don't know that this is the case by any stretch but I can say I have never, ever had a problem before with any other gun.
 
Same thing with me I had one scare I went to the range came home and did a normal cleaning, water, bore cleaner, patches and then oil, took the gun out a week later and brown rust was all over the inside of the barrel. I have no idea why but that is what happened so I spent the money to get it treated so I do not have to have a scare like that again! Oh and the barrel was well oiled and rust still emerged very heavily! Seems impossible and if it had not happened to my gun I would not have thought it possible.
 
I would hate to see the cleaning procedure some of you "rust nutz" would do shooting a corrosive spewing, black powder muzzleloader. ;)

You'd think the barrel would dissolve before you got home. :D
 
I find most of these humorous. Water... Windex, boiling water..... no, wait a second, tap hot water to avoid flash-rust.
Then come the black-powder-ers and Lee-Enfield-ers with funnels and whatever plugs.

Holy smokes! Have you ever considered to question anybody that shot those "bad corrosive" rounds for long years and never poured a drop of water down the bbl.... never mind immersing the whole barreled action?

I am with NeitArms on this one. Clean like you would a normal rifle and have fun. Clean after every range session and that's all. Drink the water, don't pour it on your rifle.

I wish some of the guys in my platoon would have interesting ideas like these. I was always in need for volunteers for nasty jobs. Sorry for being blunt.
 
The reason your rifle is rusting is because you are using windex.

WINDEX IS MOSTLY WATER. WATER MAKES RUST.

The one and only time I saw rust on my rifle was immediately after using windex at the range where the windex pooled for a few minutes when i set the rifle down.

DONT USE WINDEX.

Keep it oiled and clean it normally and you will be fine.
 
NeitArms said:
You know what doesn't rust?.... oiled metal.
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Who'da thunk it? :p

He's right. After firing corrosive I left my CZ sitting in my cabinet (oiled with lots of CLP) for 7 months while I was overseas. Returned home last month and cleaned it today and she's still nice and shiny inside. The piston and gas port are a bit black but that will scrub off :D
 
I would suggest anyone interested in this subject should begin reading on page 346 of "Hatchers Notebook". If you do not have a copy, you should. You can read it online in several places while you are waiting for your copy to arrive.
 
NeitArms said:
The point being that if you rely on water and windex to clean your rifle it's going to rust. Hot water will help to flush salts from the rifle but just because the salts are gone doesn't mean that it wont rust...

As for the total Windex farce... Windex is mostly water and when you use it you are actually getting the flushing effects of the water that is removing the salts. Standard Ammonia alone will not dissolve these salts, however Ammonia‐d3 will if you want to spend the extra money ont hat product. But the contact time that this product has with the salts is likely not as effective as the flushing effect of the water. Hot water helps speed the process of putting the salts into solution and flushing them out. So if you want to use $8 bottles of water to clean your rifle, have at 'er... but you've been had. When I got out of the Infantry the Queen was nice enough to send me to school to take Env Eng and I spent a lot of time doing Organic Chemistry. I can draw you a picture if you want to show you why household ammonia will never dissolve any salt, but the carrier solution it is in... water... will.

If it's an utter and total clean you're looking for (no battle rifle should ever be cleaned spotless) Flush with regular, free HOT tap water, and then clean as per.

However if you want to clean it like it's a rifle... brush/jag the barrel, wipe and oil the surface of the rifle. Done. An oiled rag/patch is more than capable in wiping off salts. I have more rounds down the barrel of my test VZ than 90% of the VZs here COMBINED and I have never put water, windex, WD, etc on my rifle; and it has never rusted. (aside from the gunzilla v s clp vs bare metal test we did) What I do use is the supplied cleaning kit, patches and oil.


The point is.. if your rifle is left dry it will rust.. every time. If you keep it OILED.. it will never rust. If you want to reduce the time it takes to clean this way get a product like Gunzilla (plug) that can preserve and dissolve salts in one.
Click to expand...

does the vz not have a chrome lined barrel?
maybe thats why you havnt had rust
i dont know if you read the start of this thread but im not just relying on water and windex to clean
i oil and it rusts
you seem to always have somthing to say
but nothing of value
you need not reply cause i dont give a flying f ck what you have to say
you know it all no nothing
 
The non-restricted 858 does not have a chrome-lined bore.

What are you oiling your bore with when you're done cleaning? How is it being stored when it's clean?

I haven't cleaned my 858 in 4 range trips and probaby 500 rounds. When I get home I spray WD-40 down the bore and in the gas block and stand it barrel-down so it doesn't run into the receiver. I pull a Boresnake through before I go to the range. No rust anywhere.
 
Stevo said:
The non-restricted 858 does not have a chrome-lined bore.

What are you oiling your bore with when you're done cleaning? How is it being stored when it's clean?

I haven't cleaned my 858 in 4 range trips and probaby 500 rounds. When I get home I spray WD-40 down the bore and in the gas block and stand it barrel-down so it doesn't run into the receiver. I pull a Boresnake through before I go to the range. No rust anywhere.
Click to expand...

yes i know my cz 858 does not have a chrome lined barrel
but a believe the vz58 does
ive used hoppes and outters
i store in a gun sock
maybe i will try wd
 
davecasey said:
yes i know my cz 858 does not have a chrome lined barrel
but a believe the vz58 does
ive used hoppes and outters
i store in a gun sock
maybe i will try wd
Click to expand...

The rifle Neit Arms is talking about is not chrome-lined.

Ditch the gun sock. If you're in a high-humidity area, it may just be trapping moisture.
 
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