CZ-858 - Range Report

Blackthorne

Blackthorne

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Got to Sharon yesterday and had a chance to run it in.

200 rounds of Czech milsurp. I went through 8 mags 3 times as fast as I could reload the mags and put them downrange. This wasn't an accuracy shoot, this was a break-in and function test.

PERFORMANCE:

There malfunctions. Two were mag related, one was operator related.

1 - The first of the two mag related FTF's was due to the follower getting stuck in the mag body. No round was chambered and after 2X tap rack I locked the bolt back to see the next round well below the lips. As I have never used mags based on this design before it will take some investigation to get to a root cause.

Primary diagnosis is dirt in the follower path.

Mag was segregated and testing continued.

2 - Second mag FTF was also due to the follower not pushing the next round clear of the mag. The front of the round ran into the front of the mag and the bolt stopped on the round half open.

After removing the mag and smacking it off the bench, the rounds tightened up. I put it back in the rifle and continued to fire the remaining rounds with no issues.

Primary diagnosis is dirt in the follower path.

Mag was segregated and testing continued.


3 - One of the mags has a very tight fit. In the process of finessing it in, I smacked it off the mag housing and a round flipped partially out. When I finally got it in the bolt jammed on the partially inserted round.

Diagnosis is operator error.

ERGONOMICS:

MAG RELEASE

The small mag release was not hard to find at all as the small curve in the trigger guard made a nice non-visual reference point. This may change when I glove up for a full test in armor and kit, but for now I am going to run without the extended mag release. I am worried about it catching on kit when I am SUL, and dropping a mag. Considering the price of the part, I will get it and try it at some point.

EXTRACTION:

Crisp, clean and straight up. Thank God I was alone on the range yesterday, as I would have pissed off shooters two lanes on either side of me.

Steel cases smacked off the roof 5 feet above me and rained down randomly on both sides. Great for performance, poor for range relations. :D

RECOIL/MUZZLE CONTROL:

Muzzle rise was surprisingly low for 7.62 with a military load. I had no issues getting a fresh sight picture and releasing another round. Flash was fairly large as there is no flash suppression on the unit at all.

Felt recoil was also surprisingly low. This may be due to the size of the operator. But by comparison with the SKS, this thing barely kicks at all. Refreshing for such a light rifle.

I believe this is due in large part to the stock, witch I have nothing but praise for (see below) after the truly uncomfortable stocks provided by the AR/M4 family.

STOCK

At first glance it looks like a day of pain at the range, but the stock and steel butt plate is nicely curved to fit the natural contours of the shoulder. I would gladly put this stock on a AR in a heartbeat. It's easy to seat, and seats consistently in the shoulder. After a few mags it's as natural as breathing.

The angle of the stock coming off the receiver is key to a good cheek weld. With irons, it's a bit low and you have to get a bit behind the rifle, but I can see this being a dream with a red dot.

FORGRIP

I am a mag/magwell grip kind of guy. Good thing too. After only a small amount of rapid fire (if such a thing is possible to do with 5 rounders) it was impossible to touch any part of the rifle forward of the mag without a glove on. I have well calloused hands and I simply couldn't hold it bare handed. Gloves are mandatory for anything other than target shooting.

I am going to be moving to a an aluminum railed front end of some sort on this rifle to try and improve the heat dissipation in that area.

SIGHTS

Typical combloc SKS/AK sights. Currently shooting a bit off as I haven't had time to tweak it. More accuracy testing at the next shoot.

I will be going to a railed front end and some kind of red dot optic as stated above. I will be keeping the irons as BUIS.

POST SHOOT INSPECTION

Rifle started clean a fairly dry. I don't lube them on a first shoot as I am usually trying to cook off any remaining cosmoline.

Gun was as dirty as expected after on 200 rounds. Stripping and a good cleaning took about 10 minutes. The rifle breaks down just as easy as the AK, and cleans easier.

Normal wear and tear were observed in the feeding path and in expected metal on metal wear areas. No damage was observed.

The gremlin malfunction was unfounded as of the 200 round mark.

OVERALL IMPRESSION

While I always suspect reviewers of giving every rifle they have spent cash on a good review lest they look stupid for buying it, I have to say this is the best milsurp rifle I have ever owned. I understand why it is still in use in the Czech Republic to this day. With a few minor mods it's a great assault rifle.

Overall the rifle is a dream to shoot. It's very light compared to the AR platform (actual weights and measures to follow) and handles nicely.

At first I was worried about transitioning from the AR platform as I have so much time on it. My worries were unfounded however, as I was executing mag changes just as fast with the AK style mags as I ever have with AR style mags and receiver. When you think about it, the AR is less then intuitive. You have to take a box and jam it in a hole not much bigger than the box. It's amazing we get it done under pressure.


I think I may grow to like this fine little rifle more than the AR.
 
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Nice review...

Take those mags apart, I took a couple of min apart and they looked like the deep-frier in a Chinese restaurant on Sunday morning...just packed with gunk and debris. mine will all be seeing the varsol tank asap. I also noticed they tend to hang up, going in and out, Im going to try polishing the port, and taking the paint off the upper portion of the mag, I think the 2-3 layers of paint on the mags are the problem there,but the port is pretty rough too...
 
Great review can't wait to take mine out to shoot.

ViktorF said:
Nice review...

Take those mags apart, I took a couple of min apart and they looked like the deep-frier in a Chinese restaurant on Sunday morning...just packed with gunk and debris. mine will all be seeing the varsol tank asap. I also noticed they tend to hang up, going in and out, Im going to try polishing the port, and taking the paint off the upper portion of the mag, I think the 2-3 layers of paint on the mags are the problem there,but the port is pretty rough too...
Click to expand...

Newbie Q, but are these easy to take apart? I thought that they were pinned and welded shut so they were not easy to take apart?
 
Push in the tab in the middle of the plate on the bottom of the mag, slide the plate off, take a 3ft long spring traveling at mach 10 to the side of your head. Go to emergency for stitches, clean mag and reassemble.

Seriously though - don't point that at your head, pets, family or small children when you're dissassembling it. That or put a heavy towel over it.
 
That pretty much sums it all up. I've owned mine for almost 3 years and I still love shooting it. It's got to be one of my best purchases. When my buddy shows up with his AR, I usually ask to put a couple mags downrange but I can't wait to get back and use my CZ. Anyone contemplating purchasing one, do it, no regrets here
 
H Wally said:
Push in the tab in the middle of the plate on the bottom of the mag, slide the plate off, take a 3ft long spring traveling at mach 10 to the side of your head. Go to emergency for stitches, clean mag and reassemble.

Seriously though - don't point that at your head, pets, family or small children when you're dissassembling it. That or put a heavy towel over it.
Click to expand...

:D great advice Thanks!
 
H Wally said:
Push in the tab in the middle of the plate on the bottom of the mag, slide the plate off, take a 3ft long spring traveling at mach 10 to the side of your head. Go to emergency for stitches, clean mag and reassemble.

Seriously though - don't point that at your head, pets, family or small children when you're disassembling it. That or put a heavy towel over it.
Click to expand...


If your Mags look the same as mine, and have the neatly pinned gold rivet things along the side rail , you will find the spring is held in place by the rivet, the bottom 2/3 comes out, but you wont likely hit your pets or head with it unless you are aiming for them and then slide the lower cover off. I don't know how the VZ ones are pinned, but the CZ ones are slick.:cool:

Just remember to wear disposable gloves, have a rag handy and donut do it anywhere you wouldn't want sticky grease to wind up. Like I mentioned the springs in mine are bunged up good.
 
Well, your report tipped me over the edge. I've been waiting (and waiting and waiting and waiting) for an SKS to arrive since January. After reading your report, I plunked down my money at my favorite local supplier for one of their few remaining VZ-858's. Got it home, all packed in Cosmoline, everything else looks to be in good condition, less the cleaning kit, which was missing for some reason. I suppose a commercial rod-and-brush kit will do the job just as well.

I haven't cleaned the Cosmo out of it yet, as I dislike using solvents indoors (I have a small space to work in).

Now I'm really looking forward to getting it out to the range and giving it a good workout.

Thanks for your excellent review.
 
Blackthorne said:
3 - [/B]One of the mags has a very tight fit. In the process of finessing it in, I smacked it off the mag housing and a round flipped partially out. When I finally got it in the bolt jammed on the partially inserted round.

Diagnosis is operator error.
Click to expand...

My 10 round mag had the exact problem. It was too tight to fit WELL in the rifle, and the only time it would actually function was if the slide was open, put in the mag, pulled back the slide to push it forward. It was impossible to #### the slide manually. that was the only way she would go. You sure the diagnosis is operator error? Till this day im still scratching my head...
 
Flying Beaver said:
Well, your report tipped me over the edge. I've been waiting (and waiting and waiting and waiting) for an SKS to arrive since January. After reading your report, I plunked down my money at my favorite local supplier for one of their few remaining VZ-858's. Got it home, all packed in Cosmoline, everything else looks to be in good condition, less the cleaning kit, which was missing for some reason. I suppose a commercial rod-and-brush kit will do the job just as well.

I haven't cleaned the Cosmo out of it yet, as I dislike using solvents indoors (I have a small space to work in).

Now I'm really looking forward to getting it out to the range and giving it a good workout.

Thanks for your excellent review.
Click to expand...

Well, I took the 858 out to the range last night, and after 200 rounds was mightily impressed by this rifle. Shooting standing, offhand at 50 yards it grouped nicely and consistently. No gremlin was evident.

At 100 yards, not so great. That's the shooter and not the rifle, mainly. If I have one big beef for longer ranges, it's the iron sight combo and my old eyes that don't work as well as they used to.

For comparison, I took along a VZ-58 with folding stock. The 858 seemed somewhat easier in terms of both recoil and accuracy (might just be my prejudice, though).

I've read a lot about cleaning, pouring boiling water down the barrel, etc. (where do you get boiling water at _your_ range?) I took along a squeeze bottle of 1/3 windex, 1 drop dish detergent, and 2/3 tap water, and it certainly flushed a lot of crap out of the barrel. Pulled patches through it until they came out not black and grotty, then used G96 and pulled a few more until everything looked clean. My only thought about the water-cleaning process is that there's got to be an easier way.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed info on the 858. I'm very pleased with mine - it's really a fun rifle to shoot.
 
Rivet

Captain Paul said:
My 10 round mag had the exact problem. It was too tight to fit WELL in the rifle, and the only time it would actually function was if the slide was open, put in the mag, pulled back the slide to push it forward. It was impossible to #### the slide manually. that was the only way she would go. You sure the diagnosis is operator error? Till this day im still scratching my head...
Click to expand...

Try it with one less round than full capacity; if it fits and works well, this should indicate that the limiting rivet on the hold-open actuator channel has been pinned a tad too high.
It should normally be placed low enough to give normal capacity plus half a cartridge height to allow compression when inserted with the slide in the closed position.
PP.
 
I agree with PP. I have one mag that is like this. Works fine with four rounds, but with five needs the slide open before the mag is inserted. When compared with my other mags, one can see that the problem is that there is too much compression tension because the 5rd limiting rivet is a tad too high.

PerversPépère said:
Try it with one less round than full capacity; if it fits and works well, this should indicate that the limiting rivet on the hold-open actuator channel has been pinned a tad too high.
It should normally be placed low enough to give normal capacity plus half a cartridge height to allow compression when inserted with the slide in the closed position.
PP.
Click to expand...
 
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