CZ Ringneck
- Thread starter NWTHunter
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BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I believe SuperCub has one and loves it.
Silverhawk hasn't got enough triggers on it. And worse still it has a BT fore-end, IIRC.
Silverhawk hasn't got enough triggers on it. And worse still it has a BT fore-end, IIRC.
Actually the Bobwhite would probably be a pretty good reference. The Ringneck has a different stock and is single trigger, but what I really want to know is the quality of CZ SxS's. They're so much less expensive than the Ruger Gold Label, Beretta Silver Hawk, and Weatherby Athena, and more expensive than IGA and Boito, its difficult to guess where the CZ would fit in terms of relative quality.
S X S are to be used as fun guns and not as serious shooters. They are much more difficult to shoot well on ANY type of target (birds or clays)! I have shot well unoff to finish in the top 10 at the Vintage Cup, World S X S Championship. I only use the S X S as a handicap when shting farm birds or instructing. I have shot the Ruger. It is well built but clumsy. While Tilden did do a great job of convincing Ruger to come up with a s/s, it is a big clump of stainless! A Sterlingworth or my Cleaborough and Johnson, will out shoot any Ruger, CZ or any other modern S/S except for the Higrade guns from Beretta, Chapuis, H&H and other fine makers.Henry
Yeah that's fine, but I'd like a gun I can afford. I agree that the SxS platform is more difficult to master than a single barrel or O\U; I have examples of both and now want a SxS. Affordable first, and then onto better. So is the CZ a reasonable choice or is there a comparable alternative, for a similar price, that may be better.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
hnachaj said:
I thought all guns were supposed to be fun.
As for your assertion that they aren't for serious shooters, That's bollocks. They're no harder to shoot than anything else. The closest thing to difficulty most people have is training themselves to switch triggers on DT guns. Given a gun that fits you and points well for you, you'll be as good a shooter with it as anything else.
And back to NWTHunter, the CZ is very good for the money. As long as it fits you then there's no reason not to buy one. My only complaint withthe Ringneck is that it is a single trigger gun, and it's got short barrels. I prefer a 28" barrel in a SxS. Mind you the Beretta is only a single trigger gun and it's got a BT forend, which is something else I intensely dislike. To boot it costs around $4500 last time I looked at Wholesale Sports. The basic Weatherby Athena is a nice looking gun but I have yet to handle one. It runs $3000 at Wholesale. All in all the CZ Ringneck is a nice gun for the $1100 it costs and I'd buy one if it was a DT gun. The Bobwhite runs just under $900.
If you can, handle then and see what feels better. A cheap gun won't make you happy if it doesn't come up, point and shoot well for you.
So what about Baikal? They're Russian (perhaps better suited to use in northern Canada), the IZH-43E seems to have double triggers and some other nice features, anyone have any experience with it? I've handled the Baikal O/U and think they would be fine once broken in.
What about you "BigUglyMan", what if any SxS, are you using up there in the Arctic Circle?
What about you "BigUglyMan", what if any SxS, are you using up there in the Arctic Circle?
dangertree
Business Rep
- Location
- NL/ON/FL/PL
IntelGDR691 said:
CZ shotguns are made in the Czech Republic, are they not?
Dangertree, the new CZ's are Huglu's, made in Turkey. So are the DeHaan shotguns and the Kimber Valier. The Remington Spartan line is Russian, so this trend among major manufacturers to outsource their work seems to be worldwide.
P&D in Edmonton has a new DeHaan SXS on the shelf, to see if there is any interest. It is a 12 gauge with a chromed action and bold engraving. A little gaudy but fit and finish was good. The gun did not have the balance of a really good SXS, but from what I have read the smaller gauges are better. The splinter fore end has a Schnabel tip, which is just silly.
Sharptail
P&D in Edmonton has a new DeHaan SXS on the shelf, to see if there is any interest. It is a 12 gauge with a chromed action and bold engraving. A little gaudy but fit and finish was good. The gun did not have the balance of a really good SXS, but from what I have read the smaller gauges are better. The splinter fore end has a Schnabel tip, which is just silly.
Sharptail
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Hit a nerve! Double triggers are for the sure a fumblers nightmare! What is wrong with the single trigger? A few years back, I did manage a 9th overal at the World SxS Championship at the Vinatagers Cup with a Sterlingworth. I have also finished top NR and 2nd HOA in the NE SxS Championships as well as a number of top 10 finishes in side events SxS in NE. If you want to have a handicap, shoot a SxS! For fun and to give the game a fair chance, I use a SxS. Otherwise to get Xs and food on your table, use a good gas gun like a Beretta 391 or a good O/U, that fits you! Just because it looks nice, does not mean that you will shoot it well. Try them on a few sporting clay targts, before you buy!376 birds, and counting this year.....
Henry
Hnachaj, congratulations on your shooting at the Vintagers - good show. I do, however, have to take exception to some of your observations in this thread. While a SXS may be a handicap at trap, it seems to fare rather well at skeet - witness Hal M. Hare and his model 21's. In addition, the thought of using a 391 for ruffed grouse around here is a little amusing (well, maybe a short barreled 20 could be made to work). The SXS game gun is designed to be at its best in fast flushing, instinctive situations, and I have yet to use a design which is its equal in those instances. An U/O does not offer the same flexibility because of the different eye - hand alignment. When the bird flies from behind your left shoulder, an U/O will be skewed by the time you are sighting on the bird. The low profile of a classic English gripped SXS does a better job for those shots.
What is wrong with a single trigger? Nothing at all if you do not care for having instant choke selection. Where I hunt, birds can flush nearby or far away - having the choice of chokes for your shot is a definite asset. It takes little practice to master two triggers.
To intimate that the SXS is not a game getter is plain foolishness. From Lord Rippon on down to a lowly student of the gun such as myself, the facts speak for themselves: with a SXS there is dinner in the pot, especially true if you hunt upland game!
I have always maintained that shotguns are like suits - they have to fit you to do you any good. You must use what works best for you. To paint the SXS as hard to use, hard to master and hard to hit with reflects only your particular point of view and shooting style. Be aware that others may have a different perception.
Sharptail
What is wrong with a single trigger? Nothing at all if you do not care for having instant choke selection. Where I hunt, birds can flush nearby or far away - having the choice of chokes for your shot is a definite asset. It takes little practice to master two triggers.
To intimate that the SXS is not a game getter is plain foolishness. From Lord Rippon on down to a lowly student of the gun such as myself, the facts speak for themselves: with a SXS there is dinner in the pot, especially true if you hunt upland game!
I have always maintained that shotguns are like suits - they have to fit you to do you any good. You must use what works best for you. To paint the SXS as hard to use, hard to master and hard to hit with reflects only your particular point of view and shooting style. Be aware that others may have a different perception.
Sharptail
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
popcan said:The only "s x s" he uses way up there is the old Short Stroke
BASTARD! I leave this thread for a couple of days and look what you do to it! You daughter is getting an all expense paid trip to Inuvik for Christmas if you don't behave yourself!
Actually I don't wingshoot up here. My bushwhacking gun of choice up here is an Ithaca Model 37. When I get after the chickens down south I use a J.P. Sauer & Sohn 12b.
I handled a Holland 12b Royal at the Calgary gunshow a few years ago. And a Westley Richards Droplock. And a fine round action who's manufacture escapes me (but it's $35K price tag will be forever etched in my mind). The Holland was $12K and was, in my opinion, the bargain of the gunshow. Fortunately (or unfortunately depending on your point of view) it did not come home with me.
BigUglyMan said:
X2. And the transition between double triggers and single is no more challenging than switching between an automatic and standard transmission.
As for the original question, I'm intrigued by the CZ guns. The couple that I've seen and shot seemed quite nice for the money and were certainly better than the various offerings from the former USSR or Brazil.
Well, I've found myself a nice 16 guage SxS to try-out. I've enjoyed the thread, very interesting points. Any SxS I own will be used almost exclusively for grouse; I have several 12 guage shotguns (O/U, Pump, and Semi-auto) for waterfowl.
I plan on taking a close look at the CZ products, aside from Hungarian manufacture, no one seems to have any concerns with these guns. Perhaps I'll compare with Baikal, as they seem to be at the same price-point.
I plan on taking a close look at the CZ products, aside from Hungarian manufacture, no one seems to have any concerns with these guns. Perhaps I'll compare with Baikal, as they seem to be at the same price-point.
S X S hard to use?
Sharpie I 've been hunting along time and I can't recollect a situation where a bird has flushed behind me and to my left, and I thought to myself if only I had a SXS I could make that shot!! I have shot many a fine SXS with a friend that is a collector of said fine guns and in my opinion they are difficult to shoot well, especially if you are used to shooting stack barrels or pumps and autos. That said if you want to dedicate some time and energy with a fair amount of practice anybody can shoot a SXS. Unless you have exceptional hand ,eye coordination the average shooter that pics up a SXS for the first time will have trouble either breaking targets or taking game, now thats just a plain fact, and when the " Lone Canadian" Who is one of Canada's few world class shotgun shooters gives a simular objectivity please believe it. Regards FS
Sharpie I 've been hunting along time and I can't recollect a situation where a bird has flushed behind me and to my left, and I thought to myself if only I had a SXS I could make that shot!! I have shot many a fine SXS with a friend that is a collector of said fine guns and in my opinion they are difficult to shoot well, especially if you are used to shooting stack barrels or pumps and autos. That said if you want to dedicate some time and energy with a fair amount of practice anybody can shoot a SXS. Unless you have exceptional hand ,eye coordination the average shooter that pics up a SXS for the first time will have trouble either breaking targets or taking game, now thats just a plain fact, and when the " Lone Canadian" Who is one of Canada's few world class shotgun shooters gives a simular objectivity please believe it. Regards FS
Fassteel,
I've been hunting for a long time, too (39 years, if you don't count hunting with pellet guns and .22's as a kid). My experience is that, for upland birds, a SXS is the ultimate tool designed specifically for the job. I have in my cabinet automatic, O/U, pump, SXS, and single shot shotguns, so it's not like I'm making any assumptions on any of these designs.
I don't doubt for a second that hnachaj is a good shooter and that his opinion is perfectly valid for him, as is yours. But, the key here is that no two shooters are exactly alike. Fitting the gun to the individual is critical. But, even if we are to assume all these designs are custom fitted for each shooter (which they seldom are, except for competition shooters), different designs will still have advantages for certain shooters in certain situations. "Newer" designs don't translate into "better" designs. Nor does the sheer longevity of a design make it better. Fit and purpose are the key.
In sharptail's post, he mentioned THE most beneficial characteristic of SXS's for upland game hunting - instant choke selection. Only an O/U or a SXS can give you this and, last time I checked, O/U's with double triggers weren't commonly available.
Personal choices of shotgun designs are exactly that - personal. You may as well criticize a man's preference in women. Both are bound to be emotional topics that will degenerate into mudslinging in a hurry.
My opinion: "Good" SXS's are works of craftsmanship and science that are well suited for wing shooting. They're a pleasure to shoot and some of the best examples are a privilege to own.
SS
I've been hunting for a long time, too (39 years, if you don't count hunting with pellet guns and .22's as a kid). My experience is that, for upland birds, a SXS is the ultimate tool designed specifically for the job. I have in my cabinet automatic, O/U, pump, SXS, and single shot shotguns, so it's not like I'm making any assumptions on any of these designs.
I don't doubt for a second that hnachaj is a good shooter and that his opinion is perfectly valid for him, as is yours. But, the key here is that no two shooters are exactly alike. Fitting the gun to the individual is critical. But, even if we are to assume all these designs are custom fitted for each shooter (which they seldom are, except for competition shooters), different designs will still have advantages for certain shooters in certain situations. "Newer" designs don't translate into "better" designs. Nor does the sheer longevity of a design make it better. Fit and purpose are the key.
In sharptail's post, he mentioned THE most beneficial characteristic of SXS's for upland game hunting - instant choke selection. Only an O/U or a SXS can give you this and, last time I checked, O/U's with double triggers weren't commonly available.
Personal choices of shotgun designs are exactly that - personal. You may as well criticize a man's preference in women. Both are bound to be emotional topics that will degenerate into mudslinging in a hurry.
My opinion: "Good" SXS's are works of craftsmanship and science that are well suited for wing shooting. They're a pleasure to shoot and some of the best examples are a privilege to own.
SS
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If a gun is well balanced and fits shooting a sxs is no more difficult than an o/u for game or targets. I own o/u, sxs, semi and pump and I didn't find the sxs particularly hard to pick up even though the configuration is very different from my target guns.
I think any shooter would be doing himself a disservice if he didn't explore the benefits of a sxs for game shooting based strictly on some of the posts made here even those from the much vaunted Lone Canadian.
I think any shooter would be doing himself a disservice if he didn't explore the benefits of a sxs for game shooting based strictly on some of the posts made here even those from the much vaunted Lone Canadian.
