Dangerous Ross Rifle Bolt

I think the guys that sued Ross had both lost an eye. A bigger loss than a hot coffee in the lap.

The legal test involves the question, was the problem and consequence foreseeable?

In this case it was established that Ross knew it could be re-assembled incorrectly and fired. The risk of injury would have been obvious.

Ross should have modified the bolt so it would only fire if correctly assembled, or at least made a warning of the issue.

I watched the video posted here about how easy it was to make the mistake. I was shocked.

The warning about the Ross 1910 is not urban myth. Pay attention.
 
BEWARE!

If you have an UNpinned Mark III, the FASTEST way to assemble it is to do it WRONG and THEN do the correction!

With the Bolt assmbled in the DANGEROUS condition, pull the head away from the Bolt Sleeve. It will rotate as it comes out of the Sleeve.

At a point JUST past the normal position of a Bolt during loading, the Bolt-head will become free to rotate very easily.

Rotate it about 1/12 of a turn AGAINST the direction it has been rotating.

It will slip into the SAFE position and slam to the rear.

Replace the Extractor into its tunnel, draw the Head OUT again, slip the Extractor into position and check the Bolt for operation.

When the Bolt is PROPERLY assembled and in the UNCOCKED position, the Head will be 90 degrees from the profile of the Bolt.

When the Bolt is assembled CORRECTLY, the Locking Lugs will ride about an INCH forward of the Bolt Sleeve and they will be HORIZONTAL.

Not that if the Bolt is assembled WRONG, the Locking-lugs STILL WILL BE HORIZONTAL but the distance from Bolt-head to Bolt-sleeve will be ldess than a QUARTER inch.

There is a Sticky on proper assembly of the Ross Bolt, with photos. READ IT.

With the Bolt assembled into the Rifle, the Bolt-head will ride horizontally and an INCH ahead of the Bolt Sleeve. You can lay your THUMB in the low part between Bolt-head and Bolt-sleeve.

My "Rule of Thumb" for the Ross is very simple: no thumb, no shoot!

And yes, I HAVE found Rosses on dealers' racks...... misassembled! They ARE out there!
 
tokguy said:
I like the Model 'A' Ford anthology, lol.
I had a 1915 Model 'T' truck that lived at my house for a while because the person who rebuilt it passed and everyone was scared of it ( hell yeah I drove it, who from this forum would pass on that chance)
And I agree with Tinman in that most folks have NO IDEA how the rifle that they are shooting actually functions. I've stood back and listened to an fellow expound about how LE's are so dangerous because the bolt would blow open on firing. Yes; I said Lee Enfields...wild, no? 'Gotta keep your thumb on that bolt handle so it doesn't fly up'
Risk taker that I am, I'll snap up those dangerous milsurps cheap. Heck I've gotten about 1/2 dozen free so far.
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most people now would not know what the 3 pedals were for im one of the odd ones of my generation(1990's) that if given the option i would use a model t as a daily driver when ever there's no salt on the ground lol most people have trouble driving a stick shift know
 
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Model T only had 20 BHP but it was geared right: climb over damn near anything.

I used a 1934 V-8 as my daily driver for about 3 yrs, still have it. Nice car, goes like a raped ape but too high and narrow for use at speed..... and it will bust 90 mph. Gawd only knows what it was like on high-crown, narrow dirt roads with a scatter of gravel: skittish as all get-out. At 40 mph on a gravel road, you are taking your life in your hands, literally. Might be the reason that they were actually a rare car before WW2 even got started. Accident rate was horrific: 95 BHP at the back wheels plus lousy roads. Too much power..... but it would sure GO.

Some years ago I wrote a book for the Manitoba Auto Museum, included a chapter (from Dyke's Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia, 1919) on "How to Drive a Ford". That would have been right up your alley, Bruce!
 
smellie said:
Model T only had 20 BHP but it was geared right: climb over damn near anything.

I used a 1934 V-8 as my daily driver for about 3 yrs, still have it. Nice car, goes like a raped ape but too high and narrow for use at speed..... and it will bust 90 mph. Gawd only knows what it was like on high-crown, narrow dirt roads with a scatter of gravel: skittish as all get-out. At 40 mph on a gravel road, you are taking your life in your hands, literally. Might be the reason that they were actually a rare car before WW2 even got started. Accident rate was horrific: 95 BHP at the back wheels plus lousy roads. Too much power..... but it would sure GO.

Some years ago I wrote a book for the Manitoba Auto Museum, included a chapter (from Dyke's Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia, 1919) on "How to Drive a Ford". That would have been right up your alley, Bruce!
Click to expand...

Yeah, but he chickened out and started flying........... :wave:
 
smellie said:
Model T only had 20 BHP but it was geared right: climb over damn near anything.

I used a 1934 V-8 as my daily driver for about 3 yrs, still have it. Nice car, goes like a raped ape but too high and narrow for use at speed..... and it will bust 90 mph. Gawd only knows what it was like on high-crown, narrow dirt roads with a scatter of gravel: skittish as all get-out. At 40 mph on a gravel road, you are taking your life in your hands, literally. Might be the reason that they were actually a rare car before WW2 even got started. Accident rate was horrific: 95 BHP at the back wheels plus lousy roads. Too much power..... but it would sure GO.

Some years ago I wrote a book for the Manitoba Auto Museum, included a chapter (from Dyke's Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia, 1919) on "How to Drive a Ford". That would have been right up your alley, Bruce!
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yes considering it only weighed about 1200lb 20hp got the job done dam things were like tanks too if you seen the vids of the testing henry ford did on them. one of my dream cars is a 30's 4dr with a flathead v8 of course my vehicle addiction is just as bad as my firearms addiction only thing stopping it is storage and money.
 
My '34 is the "V-8 Sedan Deluxe". Later years were called the "Fordor Deluxe": 4 doors, all "suicide doors".

Only changes from Factory condition are the Rolls-Royce truck heater and the MASSIVE set of driving lights to help out those dim yellow originals. I don't know where Dad got the things, but they started as 6V aircraft landing lights; you can FRY an oncoming vehicle at half a mile with them. Really useful for idiots who will NOT dim for you.

I used to take it to the machine-gun shoots because everybody wants their picture taken, standing on the running-board with a 1921 Thompson.

And a snap-brim hat and a BIG cigar.....

Gotta rebuild that engine next summer. Do it for her 80th birthday, then go for a drive.
 
smellie said:
Model T only had 20 BHP but it was geared right: climb over damn near anything.


Some years ago I wrote a book for the Manitoba Auto Museum, included a chapter (from Dyke's Automobile and Gasoline Engine Encyclopedia, 1919) on "How to Drive a Ford". That would have been right up your alley, Bruce!
Click to expand...

Yes, I have driven an old Model T in the earlier to mid 1940s, but I didn't like it.
The left hand pedal was low gear. Pull the hand throttle down, push the first pedal and you were away. When you got little more than walking speed you pushed the gear level forward and when you took your foot off low gear, you were automatically in high gear. There was a huge difference in ratio between the two gears. When first going into high, you could just about count the explosions as the cylinders fired.
Maybe one reason I hate a Model T is because one time a friend was trying to start his, after it had been out in about a two day rain. Everything was soaking wet. I was leaning over the engine with my bare arm on the open hood and just pulling a wire off a plug, when that coil started to buzz. It was the worst shock I had ever had. My arm was completely immobile, I couldn't move it, until he got the coil stopped!
 
smellie said:
My '34 is the "V-8 Sedan Deluxe". Later years were called the "Fordor Deluxe": 4 doors, all "suicide doors".

Only changes from Factory condition are the Rolls-Royce truck heater and the MASSIVE set of driving lights to help out those dim yellow originals. I don't know where Dad got the things, but they started as 6V aircraft landing lights; you can FRY an oncoming vehicle at half a mile with them. Really useful for idiots who will NOT dim for you.

I used to take it to the machine-gun shoots because everybody wants their picture taken, standing on the running-board with a 1921 Thompson.

And a snap-brim hat and a BIG cigar.....

Gotta rebuild that engine next summer. Do it for her 80th birthday, then go for a drive.
Click to expand...

yes that's why I like the 30's fords proper driving attire would be a 3 piece 30's style suit with a trench coat a fedora and a Chicago typewriter of course I live in a city that Mr.Capone had liquor run out of so it would be fitting
 
Interesting read that.

1. An ex-Ross factory foreman testifies that Sir Charles was warned of the danger in 1914.

2. Major Blair of S.A.E.D. testifies that correction was easy (no doubt the rivet in sleeve method)

3. "In fact besides the case of these two respondents the only other instance testified to is that of one Leonard in 1896 where the bolt is shown to have been thrown back in the face of the user through being improperly assembled in the rifle." 1896 seems very early for a Ross of any kind!

4. "It is important to mention that both these respondents were experienced in the use of firearms but when injured were using the Ross rifle for the first time."

5. "To prevent rust the guns were heavily oiled by the manufacturer and purchasers were warned to wipe them out before using In order to do this the bolt had to be taken apart but no instructions were given by the manufacturer as to the manner of reassembling the parts Each of the respondents was injured by the bolt of one of these rifles being driven back through the breach when it was used by him for the first time after its purchase."

Important to note that this was the assertion of counsel for the plaintiff Emery. Emery even claimed the rifle was shipped to him with the bolt mis-assembled. The courts rejected this latter assertion. Unfortunately, this account is not clear enough to tell us whether the original instructions that came with the rifle actually told users to disassemble the bolt or not, but I doubt it myself. Did Emery perhaps not disassemble his bolt and merely flip it into the unsafe position without knowing?

We now know that certain earlier rifles with the sloping extractor slot in the bolt head can be flipped into an unsafe position very easily, but that still does not make them any easier to close in that position.

The conclusion of the authors of The Ross Rifle Story was that the ease with which a M10 or MkIII action could be closed when mis-assembled varied from rifle to rifle, but most could not be.

Interesting how completely bilingual the Supreme Court was long, long before we ever heard the words "Official Bilingualism".
 
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