Daniel Defence Torture Test

There, fixed it for you. The verticle post reticle wasn't glowing on the example I looked through - it was more like it was on fire and obscuring the target in the darkened interior to the point that I was not able to clearly see the target in the darkened interior that I could plainly see with the naked eye. I was standing outside in very bright direct sunlight, looking into a darkened vacant store interior.

I'll offer you an open challenge.

I have a Trijicon Accupoint. Give me the exact conditions where you think the reticle will washout or fail or appear "on fire" in any way. I'll put the optic in that exact situation and take a picture of the reticle. It will look great. No batteries either!

Go!

I dare you. :D
 
I'm very familiar with Aimpoints and their adjustable brightness - here, let me spell it out for you - even with the Aimpoint at it's brightest setting, it was much easier to see the target. You've obviously got your back up, and you're obviously going to argue till you're blue about something you didn't see or experience. WTF?

Again, you seem to be admitting that because YOU failed to adjust the brightness on the accupoint, that is reason enough to deem it a poor choice? Like several in this thread, I'e been running my accupoint for several years without any issues in any light conditions. I've run CCO's in the past without issue as well.

The only reason the Marines are doing OK with their fixed ACOG's and 20" AR's is because they are a branch of the military that valued long range marksmanship above all else, some would even say at the risk of combat effectiveness. I wouldn't go so far as to say the Marines are having "no issues" running 4X ACOGS and 20" AR's - the simple truth is that they have no other choice. Of the several Marine units that I've seen, they've been even more retarded than the RCR when it comes to putting the blinders on. Yeah, 20" AR's and fixed 4X optics make so much sense on the modern battlefield, ie. mostly 100 meters and under that everyone else is following suit - er, no. Is it a case of the Marines are so far ahead of everyone else, or of them being saddled by old doctrine? I'd suggest it is the latter. Not to mention how superior 20" AR's and fixed 4X are to Aimpoints in FIBUA :rolleyes:

I'm not disputing the fact that a 4x optic and 20" guns aren't ideal for the role they're often being used in. I'm simply saying that such a beast is far from a poor choice and is more than doable.


Maybe you should go back and read my posts, Tips, because nowhere did I say "low magnification optic is no good" - that's something that you're adding in yourself; why would you go and make something up like that? Says a lot for your credibility. In fact I've recognized that a 1-4X is a good thing, as long as it's an optic that is suited to a tactical environment, such as a Short Dot or Leupold 1-8X. Yes there are other optics in that range that pretend to be, or want to be more than they are, such as the Accupoint, and that doesn't mean that they are not a good scope for punching paper - it just means that they are possibly not the best choice for a tactical environment.

Choose the right tool for the right job - and while the Accupoint is an OK tool, there are much better, albeit more expensive, tools out there that do a superior job.

A better anything is often an objective opinion rather than subjective. Of the optics mentioned above, the only difference may lie in the construction and/or overall durability. As far as performance, the only advantage is a higher magnification range. Both have adjustable illuminated reticles just like an accupoint. Although as you mentioned, the price tag on either the Leupold or the S&B is such that a "perfect" optic is to be expected.


Congratulations, you have Big Dots. Yes, they excel in situations like this. Many though, probably most, don't have the option of running Big Dots when it comes to something like an issue sidearm. I for instance, am stuck with sights with only tritium ampules, IE. no white or other coloured outlines.

If you're stuck with the old school then I guess more range time and point shooting will be the solution. Of course, I still have to wonder. If you can't see your sights, how can you clearly identify the threat?

With your "doubt" comment, it's obvious that you didn't even try the low light example that I quoted, because if you had you'd be able to see what I was talking about, rather than just "doubt" it out of principle.

I don't "doubt" your findings, I flat out call BS. As I mentioned above, I've run my accupoint for several years now as have others(many others around the globe) with no light issues regardless of environment.


Hey no problem, when you argue for the sake of arguing, somebody's got to keep you in line :D


Arguing for the sake of arguing is best left to the experienced.;)

TDC
 
I have ddm4 and it is an awesome rifle. I thought that was what this post was about but everytime i check up on it its just more arguing about optics. M
aybe start another thread.
 
I'll offer you an open challenge.

I have a Trijicon Accupoint. Give me the exact conditions where you think the reticle will washout or fail or appear "on fire" in any way. I'll put the optic in that exact situation and take a picture of the reticle. It will look great. No batteries either!

Go!

I dare you. :D

Bring it on by and I'll show you - anything short of that will just result in more dancing around in circles on your part.
 
Again, you seem to be admitting that because YOU failed to adjust the brightness on the accupoint, that is reason enough to deem it a poor choice?

I'll give it to you that I didn't adjust the brightness on it, but then in the same light my Aimpoint (even at it's brightest setting) would have done the job. I also didn't say that the Accupoint was a poor choice, if you had bothered reading the post, I said it was a good sight for paper punching, hunting, 3 gun etc. I simply said that there are better sights out there for strictly a tactical use, that's all. I suggest that the Accupoints conspicuous absence in the hands of those that go in harm's way is a rather large clue, but I'm sure you'll argue that point too.

Please name just one military unit, or an ERT that uses the Accupoint exclusively? Or let's make it easier - please name one such unit or team that even authorizes the Accupoint. If it's as good as you say it is, there must be a rather large number of soldiers and cops beating down Trijicon's doors to get Accupoints.

If you're stuck with the old school then I guess more range time and point shooting will be the solution. Of course, I still have to wonder. If you can't see your sights, how can you clearly identify the threat?

Thanks for the suggestion, but I can point shoot just fine - at anything more than 5 yards though, I just prefer something better when I'm placing my life on the line, ie. sights. For the meantime, stuck with the issue sights that I have, I've found that this works quite well and provides sufficient contrast for the interim:

h t tp://pistol-training.com/articles/the-johno-diy-high-visibility-front-sight

And of course you're still wondering - it's obvious from your post that you haven't bothered trying what was described. But first you have an open mind, and actually try it, of course.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is best left to the experienced.;)

TDC

Yes, you're right - you definitely seem to be the one with the most experience arguing for arguments sake. Like I said above, Accupoint's conspicuous absence at the pointy end of the spear says a lot.

But anyways, perhaps we should deal with any further arguments via PM, as this thread is getting a little off topic as others have suggested.
 
jacee and TDC, you guys really know how to ####-up a perfectly good thread. :D

threadderail.jpg
 
PM's will follow, as for the regularly scheduled topic. DD makes some fine products and the video shows some rather surprising results for such abuse. I never had any doubt about the AR FOW but the video was impressive.

TDC
 
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