Daniel Defence Torture Test

video makes me want an aimpoint more than anything now....but oh no! it failed at the 100 foot drop, guess I can't buy one...hahahaha.

good to see Daniel defense is willing to put their name on the line with something like this...

and on a side note as much as I love my xcr, its not the end all rifle.(IMHO) but i think it would pass:
the sand and water? yes.
the gravel and the truck? maybe, this might have been a different story for the DD if they had hit the buffer tube/stock
shotgun? yes
drops might pose more of a problem. not sure why, just always wary of drops.
 
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Yes, you're right, my bad in haste typing same.



Experience has taught me to be very cautious when throwing around absolutes like "never" and "Ever".

You need to get some more familiarity with your equipment. Your "If you point it at a bright light the reticle turns black" shows that either you haven't used your Accupoint in all light conditions, or you didn't read my initial post. Try aiming at a target in a dark room when you are outside in the bright sunlight - as you said, "If you point it at a bright light the reticle turns black" .... really sucks to have a black reticle when you are trying to aim at a target that is dark... as in not being able to see your reticle.

Think this situation "never" happens? Think of sitting perimeter on a residence or outbuilding - you are in bright sunlight, and many places of the house (doors, windows, garage, etc) can be surprisingly dark. Or how about approaches and entries from a light environment to a dark one - the transition really sucks with something like the Accupoint.

If you are positioned in bright sunlight the reticle will be glowing. If the interior of the building you are observing is dark or otherwise obscured, you shouldn't be concerned with taking the shot as a positive ID cannot be made on a dark subject in a dark room/building.

TDC
 
Fun video thanks for the post

On a side note, Aimpoints are not paralax free. They have noticeable paralax under 50m/yards, and beyond that, it is so small as to be practically paralax free.

Really? One of Aimpoints claims to fame is that they ARE parallax free. Have you actually used an aimpoint? I have not observed parallax with any Aimpoints.
 
If you are positioned in bright sunlight the reticle should be glowing.

There, fixed it for you. The verticle post reticle wasn't glowing on the example I looked through - it was more like it was on fire and obscuring the target in the darkened interior to the point that I was not able to clearly see the target in the darkened interior that I could plainly see with the naked eye. I was standing outside in very bright direct sunlight, looking into a darkened vacant store interior.

If the interior of the building you are observing is dark or otherwise obscured, you shouldn't be concerned with taking the shot as a positive ID cannot be made on a dark subject in a dark room/building.

TDC

Thanks Tips, but I'm very familiar with target ID's. What I'm talking about is being able to ID a target with an eyeball, but looking through the sight I was only able with great difficulty to make out the target, and if I had needed to take a shot, I would have been severely handi-capped doing so. Not so with my Aimpoint.

Others must feel the same way too, because I don't seem to see Accupoints on all the carbines that are going in harm's way. However you do see a lot of Aimpoints, and some Eotech's as well. An Accupoint does seem to be a good scope for punching paper though, or competing in 3-gun, etc, but as far as a "Tactical" scope goes, there are better choices out there. If had to have a "Tactical" 1-4X scope, ie. my life may depend on my equipment, I'd save my money for a Short Dot, or maybe the new Leupold 1-8X. But seeing as how I'm cheap (relatively), if an Accupoint is the only other option, I'll gladly stick with any of my Aimpoints for now: ML3, M4S, T1.

It's kinda like looking at your pistol sights in dim light. Do some experimenting with varying light looking down the hallway from a mirror, and wear a dark grey/dark blue/black shirt. It's pretty easy to get to a point where although you can ID the target and even determine if there is a weapon in hand, but it's too dark to pick up your sights because there is not enough contrast, but not yet dark enough for the tritium ampules to kick in either. Not a good situation.
 
There, fixed it for you. The verticle post reticle wasn't glowing on the example I looked through - it was more like it was on fire and obscuring the target in the darkened interior to the point that I was not able to clearly see the target in the darkened interior that I could plainly see with the naked eye. I was standing outside in very bright direct sunlight, looking into a darkened vacant store interior.



Thanks Tips, but I'm very familiar with target ID's. What I'm talking about is being able to ID a target with an eyeball, but looking through the sight I was only able with great difficulty to make out the target, and if I had needed to take a shot, I would have been severely handi-capped doing so. Not so with my Aimpoint.

Others must feel the same way too, because I don't seem to see Accupoints on all the carbines that are going in harm's way. However you do see a lot of Aimpoints, and some Eotech's as well. An Accupoint does seem to be a good scope for punching paper though, or competing in 3-gun, etc, but as far as a "Tactical" scope goes, there are better choices out there. If had to have a "Tactical" 1-4X scope, ie. my life may depend on my equipment, I'd save my money for a Short Dot, or maybe the new Leupold 1-8X. But seeing as how I'm cheap (relatively), if an Accupoint is the only other option, I'll gladly stick with any of my Aimpoints for now: ML3, M4S, T1.

It's kinda like looking at your pistol sights in dim light. Do some experimenting with varying light looking down the hallway from a mirror, and wear a dark grey/dark blue/black shirt. It's pretty easy to get to a point where although you can ID the target and even determine if there is a weapon in hand, but it's too dark to pick up your sights because there is not enough contrast, but not yet dark enough for the tritium ampules to kick in either. Not a good situation.

So if I read your post correctly, you could indeed see the reticle of the accupoint, it was simply too bright? If that is the case, the optic is equipped with an adjustable cover for the fibre optics which would allow you to dial down the bright if you will. The same situation can occur with an Aimpoint that has been turned up due to bright conditions as well. Both should be adjusted, by the user.

A lot of Aimpoints and EOTechs are in service with those who do most of their work at relatively short distances. Oddly, the Marines seem to have no issues running a fixed 4x ACOG on their 20" AR's. Does that mean that zero magnification close combat optics such as the Aimpoint and 14.5" carbines are no good? Of course not, the same goes for your belief that the accupoint or any other low magnification optic is no good. The rifle and optic are simply tools, choose the right tool for the right job.

As for handgun sights washing out, I don't have that issue with the big dots I run. I supplement the need for sights with my ability to point shoot, should I ever run into that transitional light or a pistol with no sights at all. Of course, if you can't see your sights I doubt you can adequately identify a threat. But thanks for the insight tips..

TDC
 
Aimpoints

Ceska,

I have owned and used Aimpoints (and still do) for over a decade.

They are NOT paralax free. If you choose to base your knowledge of a product on the manufacturer's advertising rather than doing some research, then that is not my problem.

Do a google search for "aimpoint" "paralax" "free" and similar keywords and see what you find.

You can also test this yourself. Set your rifle in a vice at one end of a room, and aim the red dot at a target on the opposite wall. Then move your head around and observe the dot moving in relation to the target, and hence your point of aim, while the gun stays fixed in the vice. Still think it's paralax free?

As I said, they are noticeably not paralax free at distances up to 50m/yards, but the movement will only be an inch or two in any direction, and after that, there is little enough paralax, that it does not make much difference. That is why they claim it is "paralax free".

Regards.

Mark
 
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So if I read your post correctly, you could indeed see the reticle of the accupoint, it was simply too bright? If that is the case, the optic is equipped with an adjustable cover for the fibre optics which would allow you to dial down the bright if you will. The same situation can occur with an Aimpoint that has been turned up due to bright conditions as well. Both should be adjusted, by the user.

I'm very familiar with Aimpoints and their adjustable brightness - here, let me spell it out for you - even with the Aimpoint at it's brightest setting, it was much easier to see the target. You've obviously got your back up, and you're obviously going to argue till you're blue about something you didn't see or experience. WTF?

A lot of Aimpoints and EOTechs are in service with those who do most of their work at relatively short distances. Oddly, the Marines seem to have no issues running a fixed 4x ACOG on their 20" AR's. Does that mean that zero magnification close combat optics such as the Aimpoint and 14.5" carbines are no good?

The only reason the Marines are doing OK with their fixed ACOG's and 20" AR's is because they are a branch of the military that valued long range marksmanship above all else, some would even say at the risk of combat effectiveness. I wouldn't go so far as to say the Marines are having "no issues" running 4X ACOGS and 20" AR's - the simple truth is that they have no other choice. Of the several Marine units that I've seen, they've been even more retarded than the RCR when it comes to putting the blinders on. Yeah, 20" AR's and fixed 4X optics make so much sense on the modern battlefield, ie. mostly 100 meters and under that everyone else is following suit - er, no. Is it a case of the Marines are so far ahead of everyone else, or of them being saddled by old doctrine? I'd suggest it is the latter. Not to mention how superior 20" AR's and fixed 4X are to Aimpoints in FIBUA :rolleyes:

Of course not, the same goes for your belief that the accupoint or any other low magnification optic is no good. The rifle and optic are simply tools, choose the right tool for the right job.

Maybe you should go back and read my posts, Tips, because nowhere did I say "low magnification optic is no good" - that's something that you're adding in yourself; why would you go and make something up like that? Says a lot for your credibility. In fact I've recognized that a 1-4X is a good thing, as long as it's an optic that is suited to a tactical environment, such as a Short Dot or Leupold 1-8X. Yes there are other optics in that range that pretend to be, or want to be more than they are, such as the Accupoint, and that doesn't mean that they are not a good scope for punching paper - it just means that they are possibly not the best choice for a tactical environment.

Choose the right tool for the right job - and while the Accupoint is an OK tool, there are much better, albeit more expensive, tools out there that do a superior job.

As for handgun sights washing out, I don't have that issue with the big dots I run.

Congratulations, you have Big Dots. Yes, they excel in situations like this. Many though, probably most, don't have the option of running Big Dots when it comes to something like an issue sidearm. I for instance, am stuck with sights with only tritium ampules, IE. no white or other coloured outlines.

I supplement the need for sights with my ability to point shoot, should I ever run into that transitional light or a pistol with no sights at all. Of course, if you can't see your sights I doubt you can adequately identify a threat.

With your "doubt" comment, it's obvious that you didn't even try the low light example that I quoted, because if you had you'd be able to see what I was talking about, rather than just "doubt" it out of principle.

But thanks for the insight tips..

TDC

Hey no problem, when you argue for the sake of arguing, somebody's got to keep you in line :D
 
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Mr. Vickers is in the top 5 firearms instructors I would give my left nut to train with.... I don't care about what his waistline looks like, he knows his stuff and can teach it. that's all I care about.

It's not a freakin beauty contest, honestly people. There are lots of poseurs out there who look the part but can't walk the path....

Tells me a lot tho when someone is looking at his waistline instead of at what he's doing with a rifle....


Or he'll see you as just another mouthpiece on the internet.

That's awesome dude! LOL
 
Mr. Vickers is in the top 5 firearms instructors I would give my left nut to train with....

Who are the other 4?

I'd like to get some training with Larry, Ken Hackathorn, Kyle DeFoor, Jason Falla, and a couple guys here in town that most people don't know about.
 
Good to know too, since I called USTC and they have no agreement in place for anyone but Canadian mil.

I've been dealing with them for months, made a contact on M4Carbine.net.They are looking for a "blanket" agreement for all LE.
There position is, if they are going to the DOS they want to make it worth there while.It could take a very long time?

Jason is pursuing an idea of mine which will make it available to LE for single courses and affordable. More to follow
 
nice list!!

From the mil/Leo ranks, Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Louis Awebuck, Scotty Reitz and Kyle lamb

Course then there is the comp/civilian side with Todd Jarrett, Max Michel, Matt Burkett and Brian Enos for the "zen" side of shooting..

Yeah, there's a few guys here in Ontario that would be great to train with but they rarely put on a course....

I've already got my " I trained with Earl" tshirt but it's a given i'll train with him anytime!!!



Who are the other 4?

I'd like to get some training with Larry, Ken Hackathorn, Kyle DeFoor, Jason Falla, and a couple guys here in town that most people don't know about.
 
Too bad that Paul HOWE isn't training "foreigners" anymore - he let his DOS clearance run out because he just wasn't getting enough to make the fees worthwhile.

Jim SMITH / Spartan Tactical would be another on the short list as well.
 
That would be awesome!! Never did understand the reason DOS keeps throwing up roadblocks to LE training in the US.. Gives the desk jockeys something to do I guess...

I've been dealing with them for months, made a contact on M4Carbine.net.They are looking for a "blanket" agreement for all LE.
There position is, if they are going to the DOS they want to make it worth there while.It could take a very long time?

Jason is pursuing an idea of mine which will make it available to LE for single courses and affordable. More to follow
 
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