Daniel Defense AR vs Norinco

DILLIGAF said:
I rather take the tight #####, size her up and make my personal reloads fit in her....
Click to expand...

Your choice, but I don't see the point in having a gun that is so picky about ammo that you have to treat it with kid gloves...

In the end, the guns job is to GO BANG!

Cheers
Jay
 
My DD seems to be working fine, albeit I've only been using different kinds of factory loads. So far she's fed on everything from Norc ammo, Federal, various match grades (obviously), and MFS steel cased. The only issues I've had were mag related (LAR mags).


I'll admit I've only run a little under 400 rounds through her right now, but I'm planning on testing other factory loads through it. Maybe some of that "lovely" Wolf??

I'd be interested to see how she works with reloads.

I did notice that my bolt would not go fully into battery when I first got it when I was using snap caps, or if I rode the charging handle forward a little. But, that quickly stopped being a problem after breaking in the rifle a little. But, it never had that problem when I was firing the gun.

Seeing as your friend just got his DD, I'm wondering if it hasn't broken in enough?
 
Some rifles need to be broken in a little with 500rds and upwards to 1500 and beyond before they start working right and if you are using hand loads to start out with that are not in the realm specified there will be problems. Either way the Norc has loose tolerance and in this regards is a benefit.

Whatever all I ever see is people swapping parts out of there Norinco's all the time and many of them are never put through that much serious use.
 
Anyone else have trouble with their oversized reloads in their DD rifle?

Anyone having problems with factory ammo not fitting in their DD rifle?


The rounds that chamber are about 0.375" at the web. The cases that won't chamber are 0.396" to 0.378"
Click to expand...

Spec is .355 and the .375 fit. But if you go to .378 and above they won't?

Spec is .355 and .396 still fit in the norc?!?!

You reloads are .020 to .041 over spec.
 
I bet that the DD accepts factory ammo just fine. Your .223 Dies are bagged out. The Chamber in The Nork is like throwing a hot dog down a hallway its so loose.
There's no bloody VS here!!!!
 
So the way out of spec rifle fires your way out of spec rounds and the brand new in spec rifle won't?

Hmm what a puzzling mystery. Where's scooby doo when you need him.
 
Farmboy said:
Anyone else have trouble with their oversized reloads in their DD rifle?

Anyone having problems with factory ammo not fitting in their DD rifle?




Spec is .355 and the .375 fit. But if you go to .378 and above they won't?

Spec is .355 and .396 still fit in the norc?!?!

You reloads are .020 to .041 over spec.
Click to expand...

see cartridge diagram and can also look at the specs here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56%C3%9745mm_NATO

I think we are mixing up base and shoulder dimensions.

Base dimension of both 223 and 556 nato is 0.377" plus tolerance

shoulder dimension of both is .354" plus tolerance.

I would be very concerned firing any ammo that is 20 to 40 thou UNDER the chamber dimensions. great way to have brass go KABOOM.

Ammo a few thou under chamber spec is ideal for both function and accuracy but many working rifles want max clearance to ensure it will always go bang.

In general, that is ammo up to 8 thou smaller then nominal chamber dimensions (field gauge). no idea if there are milspec requirements more generous then this but this pretty much covers SAAMI specs.

YMMV

Jerry
 
Ganderite said:
The rounds that chamber are about 0.375" at the web. The cases that won't chamber are 0.396" to 0.378"

.
Click to expand...

Did you mean 0.376 to 378"?

I sincerely doubt your Norc chamber is 0.396" - you would have massive case swelling and the cases would have a "belt" around the case head.... if there was a case head to worry about.

I assume what you are trying to say is the chamber on the DD has a head diameter of 0.375" nominal vs the saami spec of 0.377" + tolerance???

If I am correct, yes, the DD is a little on the tight side but still within the 2 thou tolerance typical of any SAAMI chamber spec.

Don't like that, a few seconds on a lathe and all is well. Otherwise, just check the ammo going in and if handloads, start with virgin brass.

wondering...

And that infers, the Norc M4 chamber is 0.378" which is WITHIN SAMMI spec. which of course it would need to be otherwise, firing ammo would lead to very obvious case defects and failures.

SOOOOOOO, from loose to tight we are talking 3 thou or a whole lot of nothing....

Size that DD with a small base body die and live happily ever after

Jerry
 
Well, I full length resize, and I didn't have the die turned down enough. The ammo we made worked perfect in a Norc CQB, and a Mini14 but often would be too tight in my Match HBar. Quarter turn on the die and now every round chambers without issue.

Check all your dimensions on your reloads, before looking at the rifle as the cause.
 
I just measured the fired brass out of my Norc M4. This stuff was run through a body die so the case head wouldn't have been sized.

guess what it mics out at??????

0.375"

Right in the desired spec range.

My suspicion is that other Norc M4 with the larger case head diameter likely is overgassed and that expansion is due in large part to being released from the chamber a split second too early.

That is what happened with mine and I slowed it down (article somewhere in this forum). Case dimensions at the base now do not change and I only need to bump the shoulder to get things to function 100%.

I am unsure why there is so much noise around the Norc M4. This is a USGI spec rifle. Yes, that does mean that some dimensions are more generous BUT that is as Uncle Sam has requested it.

Sure helps to keep this rifle running and running and running.

Accurate too....

Jerry
 
blaxsun said:
If the Norc is a whore, then the NEA is definitely a pimp. Why? Because the NEA is rarely available, seldom works and sells tons of Norcs. ;)
Click to expand...

Man am I ever glad I didn't go with the NEA. I would have liked to pay less and support a Canadian company but I just hear terrible things all over. Can't wait to get my DD!
 
Ganderite said:
A friend of mine bought a new Daniel Defense M4. I supplied him the ammo to shoot in the CQB match.

The rifle would not digest about 1 in10 of my rounds. The bolt would not close and had to be pounded open. At the range I assumed it was some crap in the chamber, since the same ammo worked just fine in another fellow's SGW AR15.

This is the ammo I make for my Norc M4gery.

The brass is full length sized.

I have just cleaned the barrel and chamber of the Daniel Defense and tried to run some of my ammo through the rifle. Same problem. Some rounds will not chamber. Judging by the scuff marks, the brass is too fat in the half inch near the case head.

The rounds that chamber are about 0.375" at the web. The cases that won't chamber are 0.396" to 0.378"

I took some of the rounds that would not chamber in the DD and ran them through my Norc. No problem at all.

I am wondering if DD is using a SAAMI minimum match chamber? But even that should accept a full length sized case. No?

I have looked at chamber reamer specs. They run about 0.3795 to 0.380", so my ammo looks like it should fit.
Click to expand...

The reamer could have been worn and near the end of its life when that chamber was cut. Do you have spring style bore guages? Other than a chamber cast I can't think of a good way to measure that chamber to know for sure. I just asked my boss and he said if the part was hot when it was cut it could have cooled smaller. Sorry but that is all I know without having the chamber to look at.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom