de-prohibiting a 32 sw revolver

I think there is a list someplace but I haven't seen it in years. Would be good information as the 32's are kind of arbitrary. All sorts of things between .308 and .320 are called 32 or 7.5mm or 7.62mm or 30 etc etc. I know I would be happy to have a place to check the status of different cartridges

With such a short cylinder you are going to have real trouble. I can look at Cartridges of the World and other books but without knowing how much change from the original cartridge is needed I'm not sure what options you have.
 
AikiNut said:
Someone asked which .32 calibres are permitted. I think the ammo isn't what's prohibited, it's the firearms in that calibre.
However, some pistols in .32S&WLong are used in ISSF "centre-fire" competition and are designated as not prohibited. But there's a difference between .32SW and .32SWLong. Guns in .32SW are prohib, match guns in .32SWLong are competition guns and not prohib. An example of a not-prohib match pistol is the Walther GSP - a modular firearm that can fit either .22 LR or .32SWLong upper receivers.

ISSF - International Sport Shooting Federation. Used to be called UIT - Union Internationale de Tir
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It's those specific guns that are exempt. Doesn't help in getting a prohibited gun out of that category :(

vagrantviking said:
I think there is a list someplace but I haven't seen it in years. Would be good information as the 32's are kind of arbitrary. All sorts of things between .308 and .320 are called 32 or 7.5mm or 7.62mm or 30 etc etc. I know I would be happy to have a place to check the status of different cartridges

With such a short cylinder you are going to have real trouble. I can look at Cartridges of the World and other books but without knowing how much change from the original cartridge is needed I'm not sure what options you have.
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I believe the difference between 32sw and 7.5swiss is enough. 32sw can still be used in those guns, brass gets blown a bit, but clearly it doesn't affect their classification.

I did some searching on armalytics, filtering revolvers and it looks like any caliber with 32 in the name causes the gun to be prohibited.

If I don't find anything, I'll try 7.5 and see what they say. Cartridges would have to be reloaded with swc and to a shorter OAL by 3 mm.

Just in case. Is it OK that the bullet won't be completely out of the casing when it hits the forcing cone? Or do I have to shorten the OAL even more?
 
The .32 competition pistols are named exemptions. .32 short or .32 long doesn't matter.
The .32 prohibition is based primarily on the name of the cartridge, not the actual dimensions of the bore. .32ACP/7.65 Browning qualifies for prohib. while 7.62 French Long doesn't.
Offhand, I cannot think of a cartridge that is actually .32 caliber that results in a pistol being prohibited. And some have the same bore dimensions as prohibited .32s, but are only restricted.

Given the amount of time, effort and probable expense involved in such a caliber change, go for something that isn't just a gimmick to get round the law.
Make sure that the SFSS will accept your conversion before you make the investment.
I have heard that a .32 conversion to .297/.230Morris was rejected.
 
Someone was talking about 32 Merwin and Hulbert being okay as it was made years before the 32 S&W was introduced. I think it's a longer shell though.
7.5 seems like a good place to start.
 
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vagrantviking said:
Someone was talking about 32 Merwin and Hulbert being okay as it was made years before the 32 S&W was introduced. I think it's a longer shell though.
7.5 seems like a good place to start.
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32 merwin and hulbert is one of those bizzaro edge cases in Canada - for instance there are no FRT entries with that caliber. The RCMP considers MH revolvers as chambered either in 32sw and does not grant them antique status... (but 32 mh long as 32 H&R (sic!) and antique (!!!)) Check 20877... There are no restricted entries... I don't know if it's a safe caliber to try with them...

To be honest, I don't know if it's a reasonable thing to just write to the lab and say: I have this gun, I want to convert it to one of these calibers, will it be restricted? It seems that 'how to approach the lab properly' is one of trade secrets for gunsmiths :(
 
I have not changed calibers, but have done barrels
The lab seems to think the same as the rest of that crew, You are wrong , till you can prove that they are wrong.
It can be a uphill climb.
One thing that is real depressing, in Canada is the nice Colt SAA's in 32.
 
Suther said:
Is there a list of what 32 caliber cartridges are banned? That would at least help narrow the list of possible options, but I can't find anything.

Would 8mm Gasser be prohibited? It uses a .320 caliber bullet, but its called an 8mm not a 32.

Maybe 7.5 Swiss Ordanance? If this wiki page is correct it used a .315 cal bullet? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5mm_1882_Ordnance
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You beat me to it. 7.5 Swiss Ordance is very close. Fun to load for using uncut, resized 32-20 brass and deep-seated .314 lead wadcutters.
 
marshall said:
I have not changed calibers, but have done barrels
The lab seems to think the same as the rest of that crew, You are wrong , till you can prove that they are wrong.
It can be a uphill climb.
One thing that is real depressing, in Canada is the nice Colt SAA's in 32.
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The barrels are relatively straightforward - I think a lot of people have done 32acp to 380 on guns like fn1910/22 so they are used to that and even then they make don't make it easy. What conversion did you do?

The plan here is to be able to show the cartridge doesn't fit pre-reaming, then fits, but 32sw is loose in the cylinder after reaming... I'm kinda partial to 7.65 french long - more of a challenge but if doable, very clear. Off to see if I can order some ammo and a reamer...

Guess I'll have to watch out for a saa in 32 to do this with too.
 
I know 297/230 Morris has been used to convert .32 S&W guns to restricted, you can find some child entries in the FRT if you look at Hopkins & Allen, H&R, etc

You might also consider using the 7.62x26 cartridge. It is a shortened Nagant revolver cartridge that was used in the TOZ-49 target revolver and will be short enough to fit your cylinder
 
Milspectacles said:
I know 297/230 Morris has been used to convert .32 S&W guns to restricted, you can find some child entries in the FRT if you look at Hopkins & Allen, H&R, etc

You might also consider using the 7.62x26 cartridge. It is a shortened Nagant revolver cartridge that was used in the TOZ-49 target revolver and will be short enough to fit your cylinder
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This is excellent info! I'm not sure 297/230 Morris would be my first choice - if I read correctly the projectile is closer to .22 and so would require sleeving the barrel - something I want to avoid. If I have to sleeve, I'd go with something more readily available.

But 7.62x26 is VERY promising! Interestingly the TOZ-49 is listed in the FRT as 7.62 mm nagant so the RCMP is not even differentiating between the two calibers. I'm guessing I can use the regular 7.62 nagant reamer?

On a side note, are there any toz-49 in Canada?
 
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KotKotofeich said:
This is excellent info! I'm not sure 297/230 Morris would be my first choice - if I read correctly the projectile is closer to .22 and so would require sleeving the barrel - something I want to avoid. If I have to sleeve, I'd go with something more readily available.

But 7.62x26 is VERY promising! Interestingly the TOZ-49 is listed in the FRT as 7.62 mm nagant so the RCMP is not even differentiating between the two calibers. I'm guessing I can use the regular 7.62 nagant reamer?

On a side note, are there any toz-49 in Canada?
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As far as I know, yes, you could just use a standard nagant reamer since it is literally the same cartridge but shortened. Think .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long but in reverse.

As to the TOZ-49's in Canada, there are at least 2. I have been looking for one for a very long time and missed one 2 years ago by a matter of hours for an incredible price, the other most recent one I could find was for sale over a decade ago. I have never seen one on CGN. I tried to import one from the Czech Republic, Interammo told me they could import the gun for me but the dealer was not interested in exporting. Same trouble with the earlier TOZ-36 revolver and Czechia.

Even more interesting I think is the final successor to the Nagant revolvers, the TOZ-96. This gun is supposedly an export model of the TOZ-49 but chambered in .32 S&W Long and is explicitly prescribed as restricted under SOR-98/465. The problem is I have not been able to find any evidence this gun ever existed other than some anecdotal evidence that it was available from a large German sporting goods dealer in the early 2000's. My latest lead is that supposedly it is in Gun Digest 1999, have been trying to track down a copy.

Sorry for the thread side-track, but I think these revolvers are quite interesting and seldom heard of.
 
so, consider this, even if you did all the work to find the mystical cartridge and managed to develop a safe shooting situation here with this basically $150 revolver, you can't jump for joy. the CFO will want to inspect it, see the records and documentation on the work. They are going to want to see what certified gunsmith completed the work and then they will decide if they approve of the conversion. your realistic options are, surrender (that hurts to say), try and find a dealer who would purchase the firearm as is, where is and then they deal with the registration issues, or you have it deactivated and made into a paper weight if you want to keep it.
 
gunpro said:
so, consider this, even if you did all the work to find the mystical cartridge and managed to develop a safe shooting situation here with this basically $150 revolver, you can't jump for joy. the CFO will want to inspect it, see the records and documentation on the work. They are going to want to see what certified gunsmith completed the work and then they will decide if they approve of the conversion. your realistic options are, surrender (that hurts to say), try and find a dealer who would purchase the firearm as is, where is and then they deal with the registration issues, or you have it deactivated and made into a paper weight if you want to keep it.
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Not a concern - I make my money in other ways :) A lot of the tinkering I do is a 'can I do it?' exercise for fun. Looks more and more like the 7.62x26.5 aka 7.62 nagant short is the way to go. RCMP will also have no issues with me being qualified to complete the work ;)

VICIOUS said:
Is a 32-20 pro hib cal.? will it fit with a cylinder reaming?
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Unfortunately 32-20 is prohibited because it has the dreaded '32' in the name. See FRT 17810-3 as an example (It's a Colt Officer's with a 127 mm barrel) The OAL is also too long (40 mm vs 31 that the cylinder can accomodate)
 
Cannot de-prohibit because it was designed to shoot .32 caliber ammo. If I remember correctly, RCMP re-prohibited a bunch of converted guns on that basis in the past.
 
If the original barrel is to be retained, and the chambers altered so that .32 S&W no longer work, a case with a slight bottleneck would be the way to go.
How about an 8mm Lebel shortened and necked to accept a .311 bullet? Enough steel in the cylinder to allow reaming for the larger case diameter? The cases can be had, and the necessary dies necessary could be made. If the reamer can't be shop made, a custom could be ordered, although the cost would be significant.
Or, convert to a shortened 8mm Lebel with a liner in the bore.
But before investing in the conversion, an approval in principal from the SFSS should be in hand.
 
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