de-prohibiting a 32 sw revolver

guess_kto said:
Cannot de-prohibit because it was designed to shoot .32 caliber ammo. If I remember correctly, RCMP re-prohibited a bunch of converted guns on that basis in the past.
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You are thinking of trying to take guns that would be antique if not for the caliber and converting them. They do not consider the caliber conversion and if the barrel is still under 106 mm then back to prohib status they go.

Prohib to restricted is definitely ok, most common example being FN 1910 swap in of a 380 1922 barrel.

tiriaq said:
If the original barrel is to be retained, and the chambers altered so that .32 S&W no longer work, a case with a slight bottleneck would be the way to go.
How about an 8mm Lebel shortened and necked to accept a .311 bullet? Enough steel in the cylinder to allow reaming for the larger case diameter? The cases can be had, and the necessary dies necessary could be made. If the reamer can't be shop made, a custom could be ordered, although the cost would be significant.
Or, convert to a shortened 8mm Lebel with a liner in the bore.
But before investing in the conversion, an approval in principal from the SFSS should be in hand.
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I'm leary to go with wildcats, but the example of the toz-49 gives me hope - it's restricted, uses 7.62 nagant short but listed in the FRT as simply 7.62 nagant. Yes, approval in principle is a great suggestion - on to that now that I have some potential conversions in mind :)
 
tiriaq said:
How much cylinder wall thickness is there?
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2.17 mm

7.62 nagant at base is 8.94 mm

32 sw is 8.5 mm

so I'll be removing about .22 mm of wall thickness on the outside and .44 mm between chambers will end up with 1.73 mm between chambers...

the nice thing is that off the shelf 7.62 nagant will be too long for the cylinder and we don't really have any 7.62 nagant shorts in the country so it's a reload only proposition - no one is likely to blow this gun up (unless reloading wrong). (I'm also looking into getting a toz-49 for reference)

Oh... and you wrote about a slight bottleneck earlier when suggesting a caliber to convert to - aren't bottleneck cartridges problematic in revolvers? Because of how the brass stretches lengthwise and can lock up the cylinder?
 
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High pressure bottleneck cartridges can be a problem in a revolver - .256, .22 Jet. With the pressures involved here, I cannot see an issue.
 
Just to give everyone some closure and further food for thought: the lab _insists_ on the barrel being modified as well, not just the cylinder. i.e. either sleeve the barrel or make a new one and destroy the old one. There's only so much I can argue and bring up past examples of allowed conversions and re-classifications without running a risk of ruining things for someone else. So mods to the cylinder only are no go. Interestingly the Lab is ok with a conversion to 30 reid via a reaming and sleeving of the existing barrel (approved in principle). I expected them to ask for something 22 like 22 flea (which is also an option). If this works and I ever look at SAA I'd have to figure out a 32-20 necked down to 30... After all tiriaq has given me hope that bottleneck cartridges might be ok...

so, again, this being basically a free revolver, I think I'll try it. I'm thinking of making this as universal as possible for all models of revolvers, so:

1. Without removing the barrel, ream to something like .42 (Levon12345 was showing how he relined a c96 recently)
2. Prepare a liner
3. I'm thinking of a thermal fit, not really comfortable with silver solder - cool the liner in liquid N, insert from the muzzle end with locktite (it's a solid frame gun, much like a SAA).
4. Ream the throat, likely with a hand tool from Brownells
5. Ream out the front of the cylinder, insert the N cooled plug and ream out the 30 reid chamber

Comments are welcome.
 
Silver solder requires red heat - it is akin to brazing. No need for using silver solder when lining. Brownells and others offer a silver bearing soft solder, which melts at a rather low temperature, and is clean and strong. Traditionally, lead/tin soft solder was used to sweat in liners.
Nowadays, modern bonding agents are used. Acraglas resin was one of the first. A good epoxy glue, or a Loctite product will work just fine. There is no need for pressing, heating, shrinking, etc. Smooth sliding fit and bond in place.
When the original bore is drilled out, there is no need for a really smooth surface. A rougher surface provides tooth for the bonding agent. A piloted drill does the job.

.32-20 already has a slight bottleneck. Maybe .30-20 would work - as long as .32-20 would not chamber.
I think the trick is to adapt a readily available case that can be loaded with minimal changes. .30-20 might be just the ticket. Just make sure that a standard .32-20 cartridge won't chamber. Shortening the case a bit would guarantee that.

Lots of .300/.308 barrels available to turn into liners.
 
Convert it to a blank firing revolver that uses shot shell primers as the blank... each chamber bushed with a sleeve chambered for the shot shell primer... no firing pin alterations required... the cylinder can be turned shorter allowing a permanent pointed barrel plug protruding into the shortened cylinder. Instant dog training blank gun.
 
Does that de-register them? I'm not really familiar with the de-milling process, and I probably won't do it with this one, but a dog trainer friend has been asking about a gun for training and a cheap prohib might be good candidate.
 
KotKotofeich said:
Does that de-register them? I'm not really familiar with the de-milling process, and I probably won't do it with this one, but a dog trainer friend has been asking about a gun for training and a cheap prohib might be good candidate.
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I expect you would have to have it inspected and declared...

Gunsmiths used to make blank guns from cheap revolvers all the time... and the police would 'de-register" them..
 
Riven said:
EPPS Has dies and reamer to convert 32 to 30 cal. 30 reid. Not sure if its only for 32 auto or can work for rimmed rounds as well.
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32acp and 30reid are semi-rimmed and will work in a revolver. In fact 32acp will work in a 32sw revolver with no modifications, that's why I specifically asked for approval in principle for it.

I know Epps has the tooling, they pioneered this conversion for pistols.

With that said, I have dealt with Epps before and will never do so again unless I absolutely must. I'd sooner order the reamers even if it costs more (because in the end it will cost less).
 
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tiriaq said:
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Make sure that the SFSS will accept your conversion before you make the investment.
I have heard that a .32 conversion to .297/.230Morris was rejected.
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I was the one that converted a 32 S&W to 297/230 Morris and it was rejected as an antique. I believe it could not be classed as restricted was the barrel length. So far I have not got around to rebarreling to over 105 mm but hopefully when I do, it will be classed as restricted. I can't remember the model number but the important thing is that the barrel does not unscrew from the receiver, so I drilled the barrel out to destroy the rifling and therefore destroy the prohibited 32 cal barrel. I then sleeved a 22 centerfire liner in place. When next I get around to working on the gun, I will remove the existing short sleeve and install a longer sleeve with the portions beyond the original outside dimensions contoured to blend in. My big concern is there may be a double standard that says some 12(6) prohibs can be upgraded to restricted and others cannot.
I should mention that I also bushed the chambers in the original cylinder

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
...My big concern is there may be a double standard that says some 12(6) prohibs can be upgraded to restricted and others cannot...
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I think their position on my proposed conversion is consistent with the one you were trying - barrel must no longer be able to accept 32 and reaming/re-lining takes care of that. Barrel must comply with restricted requirements. (I have no hope of antique status for this gun - model 1904 is too recent and they also stopped allowing transition from prohib to antique...)

What are the benefits of 297/230 Morris that made you choose it? I'm partial to 30reid, but perhaps I'm not thinking of something?
 
KotKotofeich said:
What are the benefits of 297/230 Morris that made you choose it? I'm partial to 30reid, but perhaps I'm not thinking of something?
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I wanted a bullet that was smaller than 25 cal (which is also prohib) and a cartridge that I could make from some current commercial cartridge. The 290 / 230 shell can be made from shortened 22 Hornet shells and was centfire. I am able to make my own chambering and forming reamers (I make D bit reamers) so that any small differences between my version of the cartridge and the original factory version were not a concern. The only problem that I had in having the conversion accepted was that I failed to state if the cartridge was the short, long or extra long version. I also used a piece of centerfire 22 cal barrel for a liner because it did not limit me to 40 grain bullets.
The down side is that so far I have not had much success with accuracy with the cartridge. I have a belgian martini rifle in the same caliber (original caliber and cartridge) and it too is presenting challenges with accuracy. The biggest problem in upgrading the gun is that the RCMP may take the approach that the receiver was designed to only shoot a prohibited cartridge as opposed to the gun being prohibited by caliber and barrel length

cheers mooncoon
 
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