Dear Sweet Mother of God

[Brian46]

A proposed dimensional standard, if you want to be exact. Yes, I was fully aware when I asked, which is why I was asking. It allows for many variations with different minor tweaks, but in the end it is a Box with a spring and a follower, not significantly different from nearly every magazine ever. Explaining the shortcomings should not be lengthy or difficult, ie; it requires a magazine well that must be a particular depth to accommodate the latching system. Or the vertical play may cause feeding problems if you monopod on the magazine with some rifles. These are tradeoffs that allow the mag to drop free, and you must decide what is more important.

If you have what is essentially a consumable item, you'd better have a really good reason to deviate from the standard. I have not heard of any super magazines, and what, I'm supposed to type "magazine" in the search bar? I would appreciate you pointing me in the right direction.

It does take pages because each magazine generation/brand etc would have to be gone through, then we have the what gun works with which mag, different generations of followers, springs, coatings, etc, etc, etc. It is not a simple discussion because Stanag is a dimensional std not a quality std each manufacturer builds their own design to.

But you hit the nail on the head because to us civilians magazines are not a consumable item as we do not have a supply chain in the SHTF scenario, you cant just drop em on the ground as you go hoping you will find more.
The G36 is an example of a better mag, some professionals in the industry would even go as far as saying it is the most reliable we have currently and it is also and old design, not as old as the AR15/Stanag but old. All I am saying is there is room for improvement just like we see with rifles but I guess you do not agree.

Even with the swiss rifles I have not had a mag issues like other rifles using a Stanag. If all they are is a box, spring and follower like your post states, Why do some firearms have better reliability than others with their proprietary or own brand magazines?

 

[r34skyline]

In a real survival scenario you can't just stop in to the store and buy more, you are stuck with what you had on you at the time SHTF and you can carry. What are people doing 3 gun and other comps for if not practicing for something real? sure you can say it is for fun but that is not the answer you get if you ask guys at a comp.

I have more G36 mags than I ever did Stanag, because stanag are so common and cheap I never bought lots, they are just one click away, at your buddys house or a short drive to the local gun shop. If SHTF I would have been caught with my pants down

Exactly why you should buy lots of mags for whatever you are running. My two vzs have 27 mags total for them. And in summer I will probably buy some more. Along with possibly a third vz.

Just as an example. When you buy that many mags 20 bucks a mag vs 80 bucks a mag makes a big difference. And other than use that goes to the other end of extreme, I haven't seen much trouble from a PMAG. Now yes under absolute extremes a g36 mag is superior, why don't you ask on HKPro how much money and time got dumped into the mag design? Remember that was a guranteed sell to the german army, so that was guranteed income Now ask yourself can a relatively small company like desert tactical put that kind of r&d done with their resources? Especially on a rifle with that many different cartridges? And charge sub 100 per mag and turn a profit? Remember no one has awarded a contract to this rifle. So a 5k rifle with 100 per mag being optimistic. How well will that sell?

 

[Brian46]

Exactly why you should buy lots of mags for whatever you are running. My two vzs have 27 mags total for them. And in summer I will probably buy some more. Along with possibly a third vz.

Just as an example. When you buy that many mags 20 bucks a mag vs 80 bucks a mag makes a big difference. And other than use that goes to the other end of extreme, I haven't seen much trouble from a PMAG. Now yes under absolute extremes a g36 mag is superior, why don't you ask on HKPro how much money and time got dumped into the mag design? Remember that was a guranteed sell to the german army, so that was guranteed income Now ask yourself can a relatively small company like desert tactical put that kind of r&d done with their resources? Especially on a rifle with that many different cartridges? And charge sub 100 per mag and turn a profit?

Desert Tactical doesn't supply military?, someone posted they turned down a contract recently.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...ne-I-suppose-Anyone?highlight=desert+tactical

 

[Jarvy]

The G36 is an example of a better mag.

Everything's a tradeoff. The G36 mags are ridiculously bulky for what they are, and the docking nubs makes that problem significantly worse for minimal utility. And while it does lock in solid as a rock, they don't drop free either. And they ain't cheap.

All I am saying is there is room for improvement just like we see with rifles but I guess you do not agree.

If I'm going to consider changing to a rifle that takes $60 proprietary mags that are incompatible will all my other rifles, and any other rifle I am interested in getting, that mag had better leave my PMAGs and Lancers in the dust. And I'm not seeing any mags that really do that. To me, availability and compatibility trumps improvements in reliability that are of negligible significance. YMMV.

 

[CanuckR]

On a side note, there is a thread about this on the hide, the rep said they will offer non restricted length barrels to any country they export to. So assuming I can read (that's a big IF)and the rep there isn't lying, we should see NR versions.

 

[Brian46]

Everything's a tradeoff. The G36 mags are ridiculously bulky for what they are, and the docking nubs makes that problem significantly worse for minimal utility. And while it does lock in solid as a rock, they don't drop free either. And they ain't cheap.

the Pmags for the G36 solve some of those issues, dropping free is a trade of with leaving mags behind, as a civilian in a real survival scenario that would be a bad choice IMO
crappy pic

If I'm going to consider changing to a rifle that takes $60 proprietary mags that are incompatible will all my other rifles, and any other rifle I am interested in getting, that mag had better leave my PMAGs and Lancers in the dust. And I'm not seeing any mags that really do that. To me, availability and compatibility trumps improvements in reliability that are of negligible significance. YMMV.

If the design is good it will become the new std eventually, not a proprietary.

 

[Jarvy]

dropping free is a trade of with leaving mags behind

Dropping free is simply an aid in efficient speed reloads. When a mag hits the ground, there is no law of man or god saying you can never, ever pick it up again, and cram it in a pocket or pouch once the immediate threat has been dealt with.

I always prefer to have the option.

 

[Brian46]

Dropping free is simply an aid in efficient speed reloads. When a mag hits the ground, there is no law of man or god saying you can never, ever pick it up again, and cram it in a pocket or pouch once the immediate threat has been dealt with.

I always prefer to have the option.

there is also countless scenarios where you will not be able to go back and pick up, remember as a civilian you are one, you don't have an army with or behind you

I prefer options too, like reloading my mags and using them again even if I had to flee.

 

[Jarvy]

I prefer options too, like reloading my mags and using them again even if I had to flee.

My point is that that is not an option I have given up. But if the choice is between leaving a mag behind or getting shot with an empty rifle in my hands because I was a few seconds too slow, I know which one I'd take every time.

 

[saitek11]

My point is that that is not an option I have given up. But if the choice is between leaving a mag behind or getting shot with an empty rifle in my hands because I was a few seconds too slow, I know which one I'd take every time.

The point I was trying to make earlier. Also the cheaper stanag may means their ate more of them, thus losing a few in SHTF scenario means they easier to replace. I stand by that desert techs decision to use them was a good one, going with an already combat proven mag that is readily available.

 

[r34skyline]

Everything's a tradeoff. The G36 mags are ridiculously bulky for what they are, and the docking nubs makes that problem significantly worse for minimal utility. And while it does lock in solid as a rock, they don't drop free either. And they ain't cheap.



If I'm going to consider changing to a rifle that takes $60 proprietary mags that are incompatible will all my other rifles, and any other rifle I am interested in getting, that mag had better leave my PMAGs and Lancers in the dust. And I'm not seeing any mags that really do that. To me, availability and compatibility trumps improvements in reliability that are of negligible significance. YMMV.

They do drop free if you put in the xm8 mag release. The original don't drop free. I suspect it was a bundeshwer requirement. I am not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying, while a major company like HK or SIG or FN can spend some money r&ding their own mags and other components and sell it at profit because more often than not those guys builds them to a contracts. Smaller companies have to charge more.

Desert Tactical doesn't supply military?, someone posted they turned down a contract recently.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...ne-I-suppose-Anyone?highlight=desert+tactical

Perhaps. It doesn't change the fact that the assault market is very saturated and no one is looking. So going with propietary mags is not a viable option for these guys to go with. Because it makes the whole system more expensive. UNLESS, they already have a major contract lined up.

 

[Brian46]

My point is that that is not an option I have given up. But if the choice is between leaving a mag behind or getting shot with an empty rifle in my hands because I was a few seconds too slow, I know which one I'd take every time.

ad getting shot because you had to use your rifle as a club because you had no mag to reload and I know what I would choose too

 

[Brian46]

They do drop free if you put in the xm8 mag release. The original don't drop free. I suspect it was a bundeshwer requirement. I am not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying, while a major company like HK or SIG or FN can spend some money r&ding their own mags and other components and sell it at profit because more often than not those guys builds them to a contracts. Smaller companies have to charge more.

that is a very good point

Perhaps. It doesn't change the fact that the assault market is very saturated and no one is looking. So going with propietary mags is not a viable option for these guys to go with. Because it makes the whole system more expensive. UNLESS, they already have a major contract lined up.

I never said it should be, This all started because I quoted someone who said "If it isn't an AR type magazine, then it would be useless to me as a 223 sporting rifle" with this

people are way too hung up on the whole has to take Stanag mag thing IMO. We will never see a better designed rifle if the mag stays the same.

I would like to see a better design is all, from any manufacturer, rifles are always getting more and more tech while mags have been designed decades ago. It would be like a car manufacturer picking a tire size and building every make and model after that for decades to fit that one tire.

 

[Zeroed-In]

+1. Or one that takes XCR-M .308 pistol mags for that added 10 round madness .

Where are you finding XCR-M .308 caliber #10Rd. pistol mags if they don't make a XCR-Mini/Micro .308 pistol?

 

[r34skyline]

that is a very good point



I never said it should be, This all started because I quoted someone who said "If it isn't an AR type magazine, then it would be useless to me as a 223 sporting rifle" with this




I would like to see a better design is all, from any manufacturer, rifles are always getting more and more tech while mags have been designed decades ago. It would be like a car manufacturer picking a tire size and building every make and model after that for decades to fit that one tire.

If it accepts ar10 mags I think that would be their best option for 308. For 223, stanag spec I say is the best way to go, or g36 style if they are allowed. I don't mind a propietary design, but they need to prove it outperforms a ar pmag, and they can't charge an obscene amount of money per mag. Looking at pics I imagine it accepts ar10 mags for 308 style. I don't really care about the 223. Market it full already.