Decisions decisions !

thump_rrr said:
Are those the parts you replaced or is that the way it came?
If they were replaced why?

I have a 2013 M1A National Match $2,400.00 and my total added cost so far has been $29.00 for a wooden handguard for purely esthetic reasons
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That's what I paid second hand for the rifle as it was delivered from SAI new. The older M1A's had USGI parts up until the 90's I believe when they began to run out of some original parts. My 2002 SAI standard also has some genuine GI parts. I'll get to that later. This was not meant to be an accuracy comparison. First of all I can shoot a group at ten yards and call it a 1000 so posting them is meaningless. What I meant to do is compare the cost of built rifles vs factory original and the quality of those parts. I see my Super as a desirable collectible as it has a lot of great components that it left the factory with. I picked it up on the Island on a fishing trip and there were no taxes. I paid the sellers price.

I'm waiting to see what better than my "stock" parts are. Regardless of cost. Not all of us consider price the first concern. And for those that did not do the work please include labor.
 
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Ill def be cheating cost wise starting likely with a leupold scope that i'm going to steal from my 45-70 which i never use much anymore and kind of prefer with opensites anyhow. but thats def +$300-400Ish or more value(now at least) although i may have went cheaper for optics if i didn't already have this anyhow maybe optics shouldn't count anyways since they are just a accessory really.

But ill keep a list 4u lol :p.

This m305/m14 build is going to be more so just that " a build" rather then a hurry up and shoot gun.
I have SKS's and other rifles to shoot if i have a itch to scratch " for instance i just did a boat load of ladder method rounds for a 308 of mine on sunday"

With having what i assume is a cheap Synthetic stock this M305 is likely to get a new skin to say the least, what skin? i'm not sure yet.
 
lol yea isn't it easier to just forget how much your spending as you go?.. project might get done with that method of spending. :p
 
Pop said:
Well you're the one who asked, lol...
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The OP says he's going to build an M14 based on a Norinco receiver with better than SAI parts. The purpose of the exercise is to show him what he can do with his money. I freely admit my Super cost a kings ransom but it does have the very best parts tuned and assembled at the factory. Well with the exception of that crappy cast receiver. This isn't about how much a guys scope covers cost.

You have a stock Norinco with a bubba tactical flash hider for $425. LOL
 
leonard said:
lol yea isn't it easier to just forget how much your spending as you go?.. project might get done with that method of spending. :p
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No it isn't because you intend to build a better rifle cheaper than an SAI. I'd like to see how people have done wouldn't you? Obviously people have built some outstanding rifles cheaper than I paid but then a standard LRB would be as much. This isn't a contest. A guy who shops around might do it for half what I paid. To each his own I was happy to get that classic at that price.
 
Seafury, I'm sure your Springfields are beautiful rifles, and I'm always an admirer of fine wood and steel (even cast steel :p). You and I seem to have very different goals when building these things, but we share a love of the platform. I'm looking forward with interest to your build details, and a few photos if you've got them - a thread like this is only half as much fun without pics. My point in posting my parts list is that if the OP wants to build for accuracy and reliability, it may not take much beyond a little tuning. If the ultimate in collectibility, refinement and out-of-the-box performance (not to mention bragging rights) is his goal, skip over Norinco and SAI entirely and go straight for an LRB and call it a day - they're all just commercial copies of the real thing anyway.

Leonard, if I can offer you one bit of advice on your upcoming build, it's benchmark each stage. I tend to be too impatient to do that and often wish I could go back and redo the process to see what caused the most dramatic changes. Also, before you get too heavily into replacing parts, exhaust the available tuning possibilities first. If you're going to be putting it into a new stock anyway, try bedding it into the old Norc one first for testing - you might find that, with tuning, the parts work together surprisingly well and you don't need to replace nearly as much as you thought you would.
 
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My first M14 pattern rifle was a Springfield Scout Squad M1A, and it was a problematic POS right out of the box that required 4 warranty repairs before I parted it out... the best parts of that M1A rifle happened to be the receiver & the barrel. If you decide to get yourself an M1A, look for a pre-owned M1A that has USGI parts (bolt, op rod, and trigger group).
 
I like them. Others might call me fool. First I think we can agree that Gi parts are best with few exceptions. Bolt, oprod, trigger group.
Norico receiver $400
Bolt. $350 if you can find one
Trigger group. $300-400 if you can find one
Oprod. $200 if you can find one
Barrel.?
Gas cylinder and piston?
Flash hider/muzzle brake ?
Sights?
Stock ?
Srings?

She adds up fast.

So if you intend to use the best part and start with a receiver cost being no object why not spend the extra cash and get an LRB or Rockola for another $400? That is if the Norinco is a receiver and some parts you might get a few bucks for. If you intend to tweak a Norinco and shoot it you probably can't go wrong for the cost.
 
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Okay, TacticalTeacher wading in here!

Remember folks, it's all a journey. Everyone of us is on our own separate journey of learning. It's just a matter of what price point YOUR journey is gonna start at! It's all valuable learning and that's the most important mission... the learning process. The destination is not important (rifle, outcome, fondle factor, 1/2" MOA).

Like anything in life we cannot make that journey long and infinitely longer, but what we CAN do is make your journey wider or expand the scope of your learning journey. So that's where all of us have an experience or two, or three to share!

So all you nooobs, just jump in and we will have your back! Don't matter where you jump in because we are still gonna learn lots and and shoot lots, so bring it on! :wave:

Cheers
Barney
 
Seafury said:
I like them. Others might call me fool.
First I think we can agree that Gi parts are best with few exceptions. Bolt, oprod, trigger group.
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GI parts are best, but Chinese receivers, op rods, trigger groups, and barrels are usually as good as GI.
Chinese gas systems are fine, but they aren't stainless, and none of the parts should be intermixed with GI.
 
Having owned many bone-stock Norcs, a few fully customised Norcs, two Springfield Armory M1A's (the Loaded and the National Match) and one LRB M25 Medium match I can honestly say that if you can afford it, the LRB rifles are the very, very best that I've used. Now having said that, spending over $4k on a M14-type rifle is clearly not for everyone and with that in mind I usually say that it is a good idea to start with a Norc to see if you like the platform and go from there.
 
jonh172 said:
Please let's not go down this road; Google cast vs hammer forged and you will have all the "experts" info you need.

Back on track!
Leonard. It sounds like you are a tinkerer, so, get yourself an M305 and get a Boyds stock or similar and bed your new M305 in said stock. This is of course after ensuring the barrel indexing is correct, NM op-rod spring guide, gas system shimmed... blah blah blah.
A good bedding job will give your action a solid platform for shot to shot repeatability, bed it so the barrel has some draw pressure (downward pressure on the barrel band) and make sure your trigger guard lockup is tight.
This, with handloads should get you consistent accuracy. Where you go from there is entirely up to your pocket book. Barrel, bolt, McMillan or Aluminum chassis etc....
Since you already stated you will be using a scope, ditch the Chinese flash hinder and get a direct connect muzzle brake from Blackrose and either an Arms 18 scope mount or a CASM from M14.ca.

If these mods are unsatisfactory, sell it on the EE and get an LRB, JRA or Springfield.
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You want downward pressure FROM the ferrule/barrel band, not on it. You want it so that if you took the barrel band off, the barrel would move upwards a small amount.
 
Ill start with a norinco and learn the platform and try not to spend too much on this gun maybe set myself some limits.

Im going to likely weigh each upgrade path as well.

and just see what i can do with it.

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Its not that i can't buy a Springfield or a JRA , Infact i nearly did before making this thread its that with the configurations ive seen with the SAI / JRA ect it looks like id likely end up making changes to those rifles too moving that price forward from those much higher starting points.

and when you start changing things on the more expensive rifle that you would have also changed on the rifle that cost's 1/5th the price then it starts to make less sense to go with the SAI/JRA option.

If i enjoy this platform and i cant quite get the gun shooting as accurate as i want too like tactical teacher mentioned above with the 1/2moa comment. then i may just buy a 2nd one in a SAI or JRA or LRB variety.

If the JRA or SAI were exactly how i wanted them and i knew id leave it bone stock then i might have went for it.

If the Socom 16 was Non Restricted id likely own one lol.

pss: as far as $ goes ill just put it this way, I'm single - make 75K a year - Everything but the mortgage is paid off - low energy bills - and lots of free time on my hands.
Its not a money issue at all for me but i am frugal in some ways and stubborn with how i blow my $.
 
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leonard said:
Its not that i can't buy a Springfield or a JRA , Infact i nearly did before making this thread its that with the configurations ive seen with the SAI / JRA ect it looks like id likely end up making changes to those rifles too moving that price forward from those much higher starting points.
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Have you looked into the resale price of the SAi/JRA parts you're going to change?
They might cover most of the price you'll pay on those new parts.

E.g. I've switched my SAi's spring guide for a Sadlak at next to no cost.
 
leonard said:
If i enjoy this platform and i cant quite get the gun shooting as accurate as i want too like tactical teacher mentioned above with the 1/2moa comment.
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I just want to make sure you know that Barney was likely using shorthand for "squeeze the groups down another 1/2MOA" rather than implying that 1/2MOA itself was an achievable goal.

For a very good indication of the best accuracy realistically possible from the platform (from truly top-end builds right on down), check out this thread on "a sister site from down south": http://m14forum.com/accuracy/159256-official-m1a-1-5-moa-challenge.html
 
Pop said:
I just want to make sure you know that Barney was likely using shorthand for "squeeze the groups down another 1/2MOA" rather than implying that 1/2MOA itself was an achievable goal.

For a very good indication of the best accuracy realistically possible from the platform (from truly top-end builds right on down), check out this thread on "a sister site from down south": http://m14forum.com/accuracy/159256-official-m1a-1-5-moa-challenge.html
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I can put a picture of a dime sized group up and claim it was shot a 700 yds on a windy day with garbage ammo. Those postings mean nothing. That is unless shot under supervision of witnesses who will verify that it happened. Group sizes are the inverse of fish sizes.

It's humorous to me that bone Stock Norinco's are reported to shoot MOA groups when the best NM competitors with the best NM rifles can do it on their best days. It's a disservice to anyone reading these posts as they end up expecting the same when 95% of us shooters couldn't do it with iron sights from the bench on bags. You'll never see me post group sizes for that reason.
 
I once shot a sub moa 100 yard group with a usgi fiberglass stocked LRB M25 I built for I<3m14 . Was during test fire right before I shipped it away. Banned member satain was with me at poco range. Another 50 yard test fire which I covered all 5 holes with a dime was at tmsa. Norinco receiver, all usgi , krieger ss DMR barrel.

Any one of us "m14 gurus" would choose usgi parts to build a "keeper" rifle with if given the choice. Providing the parts were suitable and not worn out. A krieger barrel would also be extremely hard to resist. ;)
Welcome to the affliction LOL
 
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