Dedicated Type-81 optics thread

[Murray 3-D]

I have updated the description with acknowledging 3BARD's product, which I associated with you given other posts on the forum you have made. Please let me know if this is incorrect, as I have no interest in spreading false information.

Are you aware of any AK mounts that just go directly onto the pins of a Type 81? You seem like the guy who would know.

Its best that im not associated with it on here. For i havent shelled out the cash to be a business sponsor as of yet.

By pins do u mean the trigger group pins ?

 

[p.Rundle]

not murray but i shown you the vomz pilad weaver ak works on the kobra ti mount. for an ak going directly to the t81 i doubt the holes are not the same. you need to drill yours to match t81 ones.

Having compared the Type-81 to the Type-56 AK, the trigger pins are in the same place. I am hoping that a mount that can be put on a Type-56 should work on a Type-81.

Its best that im not associated with it on here. For i havent shelled out the cash to be a business sponsor as of yet.

By pins do u mean the trigger group pins ?

Yes, I was unclear in my last post. I am referring to the trigger pins, which the side mounts interface with. The pins are the same as a Norinco AKs so I am seeing if there are Russian mounts that work with the Chinese AKs. Not having handled a Russian AK recently, I am not sure if the dimensions are the exact same. I am hoping there is a side rail that already exists/is cheap/is durable. I suspect the AK Master Mount would work, but do not know, and I also don't know if RS Regulate mounts will go onto that side plate.

 

[medvedqc]

Having compared the Type-81 to the Type-56 AK, the trigger pins are in the same place. I am hoping that a mount that can be put on a Type-56 should work on a Type-81.



Yes, I was unclear in my last post. I am referring to the trigger pins, which the side mounts interface with. The pins are the same as a Norinco AKs so I am seeing if there are Russian mounts that work with the Chinese AKs. Not having handled a Russian AK recently, I am not sure if the dimensions are the exact same. I am hoping there is a side rail that already exists/is cheap/is durable. I suspect the AK Master Mount would work, but do not know, and I also don't know if RS Regulate mounts will go onto that side plate.

could you share a photo of this finding?

 

[p.Rundle]

could you share a photo of this finding?

I can't because I don't own a Type-56, I did the comparison at a shooting range. Perhaps someone with a prohib could post a picture? Best I can do is suggest you google them and compare, but I did have a gunsmith take a quick look and he said they were basically the exact same as far as he could tell from a quick examination.

 

[medvedqc]

I can't because I don't own a Type-56, I did the comparison at a shooting range. Perhaps someone with a prohib could post a picture? Best I can do is suggest you google them and compare, but I did have a gunsmith take a quick look and he said they were basically the exact same as far as he could tell from a quick examination.

ok you did not take apart those to compare.

 

[Murray 3-D]

AK side rails dont attach via trigger group pins, they attach by rivets placed in separate holes that are stamped in during the manufacturing process. The AK side plates have cuts made in them to not cover the trigger group pins. The only mount i know of on the market that attaches via trigger group pins on a AK is the AK master mount. A system developed in the states for AKs. There is a very high chance it wont work with the Type 81sa.

Meanwhile in Canada TIs Kobra mount already does what u seek, and so does the other company. They are essentially "Type 81 master mounts".

If one was on a real budget, had an "optics ready rifle" (rifles that come with threaded trigger group pins) and already had the tools... they could buy one of the numerous different styles and shapes of Warsaw Pact side rails out there (AK, VZ, SVD etc), mark, drill and tap M5x0.8mm holes in it that allows the Optics Ready Rifles pins to thread into. After that ud have a Warsaw Pact side rail on ur gun. Just like Western optic systems, the optic mounting endeavor is a multi part system. In a essence u now have the combloc equivalent of a "1913" rail bolted to the side of ur gun. Now u need a combloc optic to clamp to it. Or u can buy what many call a 1913 / weaver side mount. This is what the RS regulate mount essentially are... there are plenty of other manufacturers that make mounts lile this. Eastern European companys,
American companys and Asian companys. They are all essentially an adapter, something that clamps to the combloc rail, and then by design places a western optic rail on top of ur gun. In a way, these are the "AR cantilever mount" of the combloc world.

Sounds like a lot to many. But this is what u sign up for when u decide u want to put an optic on a 1.5mm thick stamped steel gun with a floppy tin dust cover on top.

As janky as the side mount optic system sounds. It ultimately works. Its work for over 100 years. Its fought more battles then any other optic system. Its used on everything from 5.45 AKs to 12.7mm Kord machine guns... and RPGs

 

[p.Rundle]

ok you did not take apart those to compare.

I don't think the company that owns it would be thrilled about me doing that lol.

AK side rails dont attach via trigger group pins, they attach by rivets placed in separate holes that are stamped in during the manufacturing process. The AK side plates have cuts made in them to not cover the trigger group pins. The only mount i know of on the market that attaches via trigger group pins on a AK is the AK master mount. A system developed in the states for AKs. There is a very high chance it wont work with the Type 81sa.

Meanwhile in Canada TIs Kobra mount already does what u seek, and so does the other company. They are essentially "Type 81 master mounts".

If one was on a real budget, had an "optics ready rifle" (rifles that come with threaded trigger group pins) and already had the tools... they could buy one of the numerous different styles and shapes of Warsaw Pact side rails out there (AK, VZ, SVD etc), mark, drill and tap M5x0.8mm holes in it that allows the Optics Ready Rifles pins to thread into. After that ud have a Warsaw Pact side rail on ur gun. Just like Western optic systems, the optic mounting endeavor is a multi part system. In a essence u now have the combloc equivalent of a "1913" rail bolted to the side of ur gun. Now u need a combloc optic to clamp to it. Or u can buy what many call a 1913 / weaver side mount. This is what the RS regulate mount essentially are... there are plenty of other manufacturers that make mounts lile this. Eastern European companys,
American companys and Asian companys. They are all essentially an adapter, something that clamps to the combloc rail, and then by design places a western optic rail on top of ur gun. In a way, these are the "AR cantilever mount" of the combloc world.

Sounds like a lot to many. But this is what u sign up for when u decide u want to put an optic on a 1.5mm thick stamped steel gun with a floppy tin dust cover on top.

As janky as the side mount optic system sounds. It ultimately works. Its work for over 100 years. Its fought more battles then any other optic system. Its used on everything from 5.45 AKs to 12.7mm Kord machine guns... and RPGs

Oh the side mounts are super cool man, don't get me wrong. That's why I'm so interested in finding one. If the AK Master Mount works, that would be a huge benefit for Canadian consumers, in addition to having the domestically produced options. The more options the better, and I'm glad more are becoming available. I may look into seeing if the Master Mount will work with the Type-81 I have access to. Might take a while, because I need to sort some other stuff out first, but I wouldn't mind being a guinea pig and reporting to the group. It seems like no one actually knows if those will or will not work.

 

[Murray 3-D]

Will be interested to hear about ur findings, my previous post was more of a general address to those who may read thru this thread. I didnt get any negative vibes from what u posted.. just to clarify.

 

[p.Rundle]

Will be interested to hear about ur findings, my previous post was more of a general address to those who may read thru this thread. I didnt get any negative vibes from what u posted.. just to clarify.

I didn't get any negative impressions from your post, and appreciate your efforts to make things clear for the people who will use this post!

 

[medvedqc]

I don't think the company that owns it would be thrilled about me doing that lol.



Oh the side mounts are super cool man, don't get me wrong. That's why I'm so interested in finding one. If the AK Master Mount works, that would be a huge benefit for Canadian consumers, in addition to having the domestically produced options. The more options the better, and I'm glad more are becoming available. I may look into seeing if the Master Mount will work with the Type-81 I have access to. Might take a while, because I need to sort some other stuff out first, but I wouldn't mind being a guinea pig and reporting to the group. It seems like no one actually knows if those will or will not work.

no problem. glad to hear your findings and read them.

 

[medvedqc]

So I have been perusing the forums here, trying to understand the optic mounting solutions available for the Type-81. It does not seem very clear what is available, so I figured making a dedicated thread for the topic, rather than having to scan hundreds of pages of info that may or may not be relevant seems like a good exercise. If you have additional info (and I'm certainly lacking a lot of info) please chime in below!

Right now the alternatives I'm aware of are:

1.) Buy the pre-existing mounts from TI. This however, is complicated by the fact that most people seem to conclude the side mounts they offered were garbage, and the quad rails were too heavy. On top of this, these are no longer available.

-My judgement: Not viable.

2.) Drill and tap the receiver for Vz-58 side mount. This requires permanent modification of the Type-81 to accomplish, and potentially complicates/prevents changing to a different receiver-mounted optics rail. With that being said, the CSA mounts were very well made before a spate of them apparently had poorly heat-treated throw levers.

-My judgement: Not ideal.

3.) Wait for Canadian-made mounts. There is a dude (I forget your CGN handle) who makes aluminum stuff for the Type-81. There is actually more than one, but the guy I am referencing is on Instagram as Sigmacocanada. He is making Ultimak style rails, and I suspect he is working on a rear-mounted solution. The front rail, however, requires a tool to remove (I think) which makes it less ideal for a field strip to neutralize corrosive powder in the piston area. I have a concern with precise return to zero if screws are involved, but the guy claims it is good to go (even with my concern it's probably good enough for a red dot). With all that being said, for a forward-mounted option this is far and away the best option I have seen, and it looks very, very cool.

Other options in the works are 3BARD or "3 BAR D Productions."

-My judgement (for Sigmacocanada): pretty freaking good for forward mounted option. Depending on what comes of the option below, perhaps the only realistic alternative.
-Additional evaluations will be added as more info becomes available. For now I'm holding any judgement on other Canadian-made options because I simply don't know enough.

4.) Figure out which RS Regulate mount works. I have seen so many people talking about these, with no solid information about which mount works with which side plate. Having compared a Type-81 to a Norinco AK, it looks like the pins that side plates mount into match up. But I cannot find information on which side plate will actually work with a Norinco AK that will allow for an RS Regulate to correctly pair. I emailed RS and they said they have no clue which mount of theirs would work best with a Type-81, so it's kind of a shot in the dark even if you get a side plate. Is the Type-81 too tall? I don't know, and neither do they. Still, a rear mounted, easily detached optics mount that returns to zero would be ideal for a gun you have to clean every time you shoot (unless you've hit unobtainium and found a ton of non-corrosive ammo you're willing to shoot--PS the Norinco non-corrosive has been corrosive in my experience. Check your chambers and see if there's rust in the shoulder/neck portion, as I have an SKS that has had a bit of damage from this).

-My judgement: I don't know, this is probably the best option, but no one AFAIK has actually figured it out or made the info readily available. Stay tuned and hopefully this is cleared up.

5.) Wait for TI to offer actual mounts that aren't pieces of crap. This seems unlikely given that all the attachments for these guns are made in China, and it seems to be a trend to make really good guns with really crappy factory attachments in that country. Hopefully they can at least produce a steel side plate that's actually heat treated and finished well so an RS Regulate mount could be attached. I honestly don't know what the purpose of the optics-ready edition was given the lack of useable mounts. We want slim, lightweight, durable, return to zero mounts made out of good material. If some dude in Alberta can do it, I don't see why it's so hard for Chinese factories. I believe TI has said they're working on this, the quality of the resultant product remains to be seen.

-My judgement: probably not going to go anywhere, but who knows? Maybe the Chinese will miraculously fix their endemic QC issues when it comes to fit, finish, and consistency.

6.) Buy Kobra red dot, then sell the red dot and keep the mount. This costs $588, and lowering that cost depends on selling the Kobra itself. On top of this, I wouldn't be surprised if we see increased sanctions against Russia and Kobras are banned from import.

-My judgement: this is a ridiculous process to just get a functional mount, and selling a Kobra without the mount seems like a challenging prospect in Canada. It will likely be challenging to sell the Kobra as the market saturates with them.

7.) Not really an "option" but rather a resource for mounting optics, is GNUTZGUY on Youtube. Seems like a top dude with a lot of experience in making firearms more suitable for a specific task.

I am going to add to this as people comment below, so there remains a master list at the top. Like I said, I am NOT the all-knowing master of the options available. I'm just a dude who has been annoyed about a lack of practical solutions for this rifle and the lack of clarity for prospective buyers who might misunderstand exactly what they could do if they bought a Type-81. It is frustrating to want a firearm and not really know what you're going/able to do with it once you get it.

do you know if 3dbar rail fit the kobra sight?

 

[fritzhanzel]

So I have been perusing the forums here, trying to understand the optic mounting solutions available for the Type-81. It does not seem very clear what is available, so I figured making a dedicated thread for the topic, rather than having to scan hundreds of pages of info that may or may not be relevant seems like a good exercise. If you have additional info (and I'm certainly lacking a lot of info) please chime in below!

Right now the alternatives I'm aware of are:

1.) Buy the pre-existing mounts from TI. This however, is complicated by the fact that most people seem to conclude the side mounts they offered were garbage, and the quad rails were too heavy. On top of this, these are no longer available.

-My judgement: Not viable.

2.) Drill and tap the receiver for Vz-58 side mount. This requires permanent modification of the Type-81 to accomplish, and potentially complicates/prevents changing to a different receiver-mounted optics rail. With that being said, the CSA mounts were very well made before a spate of them apparently had poorly heat-treated throw levers.

-My judgement: Not ideal.

3.) Wait for Canadian-made mounts. There is a dude (I forget your CGN handle) who makes aluminum stuff for the Type-81. There is actually more than one, but the guy I am referencing is on Instagram as Sigmacocanada. He is making Ultimak style rails, and I suspect he is working on a rear-mounted solution. The front rail, however, requires a tool to remove (I think) which makes it less ideal for a field strip to neutralize corrosive powder in the piston area. I have a concern with precise return to zero if screws are involved, but the guy claims it is good to go (even with my concern it's probably good enough for a red dot). With all that being said, for a forward-mounted option this is far and away the best option I have seen, and it looks very, very cool.

Other options in the works are 3BARD or "3 BAR D Productions."

-My judgement (for Sigmacocanada): pretty freaking good for forward mounted option. Depending on what comes of the option below, perhaps the only realistic alternative.
-Additional evaluations will be added as more info becomes available. For now I'm holding any judgement on other Canadian-made options because I simply don't know enough.

4.) Figure out which RS Regulate mount works. I have seen so many people talking about these, with no solid information about which mount works with which side plate. Having compared a Type-81 to a Norinco AK, it looks like the pins that side plates mount into match up. But I cannot find information on which side plate will actually work with a Norinco AK that will allow for an RS Regulate to correctly pair. I emailed RS and they said they have no clue which mount of theirs would work best with a Type-81, so it's kind of a shot in the dark even if you get a side plate. Is the Type-81 too tall? I don't know, and neither do they. Still, a rear mounted, easily detached optics mount that returns to zero would be ideal for a gun you have to clean every time you shoot (unless you've hit unobtainium and found a ton of non-corrosive ammo you're willing to shoot--PS the Norinco non-corrosive has been corrosive in my experience. Check your chambers and see if there's rust in the shoulder/neck portion, as I have an SKS that has had a bit of damage from this).

-My judgement: I don't know, this is probably the best option, but no one AFAIK has actually figured it out or made the info readily available. Stay tuned and hopefully this is cleared up.

5.) Wait for TI to offer actual mounts that aren't pieces of crap. This seems unlikely given that all the attachments for these guns are made in China, and it seems to be a trend to make really good guns with really crappy factory attachments in that country. Hopefully they can at least produce a steel side plate that's actually heat treated and finished well so an RS Regulate mount could be attached. I honestly don't know what the purpose of the optics-ready edition was given the lack of useable mounts. We want slim, lightweight, durable, return to zero mounts made out of good material. If some dude in Alberta can do it, I don't see why it's so hard for Chinese factories. I believe TI has said they're working on this, the quality of the resultant product remains to be seen.

-My judgement: probably not going to go anywhere, but who knows? Maybe the Chinese will miraculously fix their endemic QC issues when it comes to fit, finish, and consistency.

6.) Buy Kobra red dot, then sell the red dot and keep the mount. This costs $588, and lowering that cost depends on selling the Kobra itself. On top of this, I wouldn't be surprised if we see increased sanctions against Russia and Kobras are banned from import.

-My judgement: this is a ridiculous process to just get a functional mount, and selling a Kobra without the mount seems like a challenging prospect in Canada. It will likely be challenging to sell the Kobra as the market saturates with them.

7.) Not really an "option" but rather a resource for mounting optics, is GNUTZGUY on Youtube. Seems like a top dude with a lot of experience in making firearms more suitable for a specific task.

I am going to add to this as people comment below, so there remains a master list at the top. Like I said, I am NOT the all-knowing master of the options available. I'm just a dude who has been annoyed about a lack of practical solutions for this rifle and the lack of clarity for prospective buyers who might misunderstand exactly what they could do if they bought a Type-81. It is frustrating to want a firearm and not really know what you're going/able to do with it once you get it.

1. and 3 are basically the same, no they are not garbage, at least the one I mounted today has very tight tolerances, not sure about the earlier ones. I mounted the TI side rail today and feel that it is very solid. Murray3D is the person who sold the first batch of side rails on type 81 enthusiast. He is using the same mounting technique. Not sure when his next batch will be available, he posted that he is recovering from covid.

2. you cannot drill and tap the type 81 since it is stamped and not milled

4. Nothing on their web site which is useable as side rail.

6. your choice as well as the rail which replaces the front upper and lower hand guard offered by simgaco. Obviously you can only use a red dot with this option. He is also sold out.

7. Only suitable option if you don't want or don't have the rail from TI or 3D. Gunnutz on youtube shows a few ways to do this. Honestly, I don't see a big problem drilling 2 or 3 small holes, they are so many already. You just leave the side rail on the rifle, the VZ always came with a side rail and no one ever complained.

Gunnutz has several videos, watch them and you can see which options you have. Chose your optic first and the mount you will be using since it will determine where you will mount the side rail. You don't want it too high or too low.

Kind of interesting that sigmaco and 3DMurray offered both small first runs which sold out fast and now all we have is silence. LOL.

That's why I ordered the SR with the NPZ mount and rail. I may switch it over together with the pins to my folder and drill some holes in my SR so I can use my better POSP scope on the SR which requires the mount to be higher. I will be using the side rail offered by Eastwave called SVD/SKS/Tiger side rail mount which I already have.

 

[Murray 3-D]

Asking Canadian machine shops to spend time on $10-20k gun accessory runs is proving tedious when they could otherwise be handling $100k+ oil patch stuff. Back before the Ukraine war I would email a local machine to get a quote and they would provide it within 3 days, and offer a machine lead time of only 2 weeks. Now it takes 2 weeks to even get a reply from them haha

 

[Old Skool Soldier]

With the new Type 81 OR- I have and installed the 3barD rail...I want to do a Kobra sight..TI's site offers one for $399, and one for $588...the $588 includes the threaded pins which I wouldnt need, but not sure if only this kit includes the side mount??

 

[medvedqc]

With the new Type 81 OR- I have and installed the 3barD rail...I want to do a Kobra sight..TI's site offers one for $399, and one for $588...the $588 includes the threaded pins which I wouldnt need, but not sure if only this kit includes the side mount??

the 399 is offering only the sights, the 588 will offer the mounts the rail and the sight. you should need only the one at 399 but i wasnt able to get an answer yet if the kobra is fitting the 3bard rail. wish i am ble to buy 2 of those. wait will come.

 

[medvedqc]

ok found out that the kobra sight is fitting on the 3dbar universal mount. a little higher than the original set up but in the same farther on the trigger group.

 

[brapjack]

If I could only find that Vomz mount I would buy it. Anything else that works on the Kobra mount? My Kobra is maxed out of adjustment and still not able to get it sighted in.

touch base with TI, I had this issue and they got me sorted.

 

[Old Skool Soldier]

Ok, so with that information, the 399 option would be what I need, being that I have the 3BarD rail?? I tried to contact TI, this was TI's reply..

"Glad to hear you’re enjoying your T81! To mount the Kobra to your T81 you would need the full kit (588) as it includes all the hardware needed to do so. The Kobra does come with the side mount attached.
Cheers!
"

 

[medvedqc]

Ok, so with that information, the 399 option would be what I need, being that I have the 3BarD rail?? I tried to contact TI, this was TI's reply..

"Glad to hear you’re enjoying your T81! To mount the Kobra to your T81 you would need the full kit (588) as it includes all the hardware needed to do so. The Kobra does come with the side mount attached.
Cheers!
"

if you have the 3bar installed on your receiver you do not need the installation kit just the sight.

 

[medvedqc]

everything with that base should work on a kobra rail.

vomz mount can not be found actually because of the embargo on russia stuff.

If I could only find that Vomz mount I would buy it. Anything else that works on the Kobra mount? My Kobra is maxed out of adjustment and still not able to get it sighted in.