There are many rifles from the 1890's that have not been improved on. Winchester 92 and 94, Savage 99, and last but not least the Mauser 98. It's not nostalgia that makes people recommend the 30WCF, the cartridge is excellent for deer at "normal ranges" and the traditional lever action carbine is pretty much unbeatable for carrying in your hand, not slung or in the truck. It would be very tough to find at better rifle for deer in the thick stuff.
Deer Gun Calibre
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There are many rifles from the 1890's that have not been improved on. Winchester 92 and 94, Savage 99, and last but not least the Mauser 98. It's not nostalgia that makes people recommend the 30WCF, the cartridge is excellent for deer at "normal ranges" and the traditional lever action carbine is pretty much unbeatable for carrying in your hand, not slung or in the truck. It would be very tough to find at better rifle for deer in the thick stuff.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Thats about the opposite direction the OP wants go.
Long barreled magnum rifles in tight bush with shots rarely more then 50m isnt call for a 270WSM. In fact, thats the exact reason I sold my 270WSM. It was making too much of a mess of deer.
I've read every post on this thread and few if any have actually addressed the OPs question.......what can I do to reduce meat destruction? I am one of few who recognise that just cause a deer isn't standing perfect broadside to me I'm going to pass him up....ain't gonna happen!! Now what is the best way to mitigate the meat loss when angles aren't perfect and your bullet is going to pass through some edible portions of the animal? Going smaller in caliber isn't the answer as you'll likely spoil more meat with a smaller, higher velocity bullet. You certainly aren't going to do less damage than an 06 180 gn, and your bullet may not even reach the vitals with a bad angle using a lighter smaller caliber bullet. If you really want to keep all the good traits of the 06 and do less meat damage I would highly recommend a 358 win with 250 gn loads, or something similar.....35 Whelen, 338-06or the 9.3X62. This family of cartridges will kill with great effectiveness, penetrate end to end if need be and allow you to eat right up to the hole, giving you significantly less meat damage. The 30-30 clan are not entirely wrong, but I believe the afore mentioned family do everything the old 30-30 will do and do it better, with heavier bullets and greater penetration. IF you wish to keep using your 30-06 and don't wish to buy another rifle you can accomplish the same effect with very heavy, well made bullets, if you handload. If you don't handload then I recommend a new rifle in one of the cartridges I mentioned.
I have several "deer" rifles as most of us do. For me, I find the 6mm and 6.5mm in a bolt/lever/semi with a 20-22" barrel just right for the thick stuff, the 50 yd shots and the occasional watch that needs a long distance calling card. Also a 6mm semi or lever works well while dogging with open sights and/or a 1.75-5 scope. Most important for me it's my choice of bullets for the hunt conditions that eventually determine the need for flashlights and trailing, not just the caliber.
So a 30-30 lever is a great choice for some folk in the thickets, but somewhat harder to operate at longer distances if needed.
In my experience deer can go far "without blood" but they can't go far "without air". I like the high lung, neck shots or pinned shoulders for the best chance to eliminate trailing and that's pretty much independent of caliber, distance and even bullet construction.
Shoot what fits/suits you physically in a caliber that you are familiar with and bullets that fit the conditions. Couple that with practice and enjoy the results when presented with an opportunity regardless of situation.
So a 30-30 lever is a great choice for some folk in the thickets, but somewhat harder to operate at longer distances if needed.
In my experience deer can go far "without blood" but they can't go far "without air". I like the high lung, neck shots or pinned shoulders for the best chance to eliminate trailing and that's pretty much independent of caliber, distance and even bullet construction.
Shoot what fits/suits you physically in a caliber that you are familiar with and bullets that fit the conditions. Couple that with practice and enjoy the results when presented with an opportunity regardless of situation.
Something first produced c. 1895 for which there is not a superior product on the market today? Sure!
For what the OP was asking, for a round and rifle to be used on deer at 50 yards or less, there is nothing superior to the 1894 Winchester (or equivalent, eg Marlin) in .30/30.
Longer range? Wasted. 50 yards is the specification.
More power? Wasted. Dead is dead and 'more dead' makes no sense.
The best all-round first rifle suitable for all ranges and all game? That's not what the question was. The OP already has perhaps the best all-round rifle ever made, a .30-06.
The .30/30 will kill deer reliably at the specified range, is cheaper than the fancier new kids on the block, is light and easy to handle, offers quick follow-up shots if required and, being less powerful than the .30-06, will - all other things being equal - produce less meat loss.
You don't need a sports car to go to the grocery...
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My thoughts exactly Mig when I recommended that family, A guy could try the 9.3 without a great cash out lay and see if it worked more to his liking. There is also nothing wrong with a Husqvarna rifle. If he wanted a lever gun there are the great little levers from browning in 358 Win, pumps in the Whelen, and bolts in all the above cartridges. There is also the 338 fed which should be okay, I've no experience at all with this cartridge but my understanding is it's just a 338-08, should give all the same positive caracteristics in this family of cartridges.
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I was thinking a 7x57 with the old 175gr. round nose would do the trick.
Sounds like I hunt in the same type of conditions. My go to gun these days is a Winchester 100 in .308 but sometimes I go with a 12 guage with slugs or a 30-30. Planning on installing ghost rings on a Winchester 94 30-30 for next year. I never seem to get the longer shots that carry the 308 for. The last deer I shot during rifle season was at about 7 feet. One guy in our camp this year shot 3 bucks on opening day with a 30-30. If you can't kill a deer with a 30-30 under a 150 yards you shouldn't be in the bush.
My absolute favorite deer cartridge, a great choice overall.
22 Hornet.......
You are a bad, bad man.
I would happily hunt deer with a cast 245gr Keith SWC. You don't need a lot of expansion when you are already punching a near 1/2" hole and the SWC design shoots straight and puts deer down hard.
Why not? The 7x57 has very moderate velocities with the 175gr bullets and shouldn't unduly damage meat unless the animal is shot right in the shoulder.
That seems fair to me. A model 94 in 30-30 is a great choice for heavy bush and close ranges like OP is looking at.
Mark
I shoot the whole .308 family, including a stubbed .338F (a stubbed .260 is in the works)... This is the reason that I have not gone with the .338/06 (although this does not explain why I shoot both the .358 and Whelen... Just have a soft spot for the Whelen)... The .338F is a very fine hunting cartridge and would work perfectly for the OP's needs.
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In light of my username, I'll also vote for 30-30 in a levergun... Or 32 special... 38-55... 44-40... 45-70... It's gonna be hard to find a calibre that won't kill a deer at the close ranges specified. I would put more emphasis on the platform than the calibre with close cover shooting in mind. Fast into action, and quick followups are what you want. Levergun ftw!
Of course... an SKS with some good soft points might just be the ticket. Hell, at 50 yards - if you miss 5 times you can run the bugger down with your bayonet
Of course... an SKS with some good soft points might just be the ticket. Hell, at 50 yards - if you miss 5 times you can run the bugger down with your bayonet
The 44 Magnum is chambered in the Marlin 1894, it is light, fairly inexpensive as new rifles go, and scoped up nicely (old tired eyes).
50 yards is the maximum shot I do and I don’t want to give up a less than perfect double lung shot. We are lucky to see 25 yards most of the time.
I am a huge fan of the 30-06 and it has done well for me on all types of game. Recoil out of the 30-06 is not a problem for me at the range or in the woods. Maybe I will go from the 180 grain projectiles and try the 220 slowed down a bit. I do handload and maybe this is similar to your suggestion.
I have some of those lead bullets that I will load up and try out of the rifle. I have never hunting tried cast bullets so I have no experience to say if they will or will not work. I will use the old 30-06 for the bad weather days and the new 44 Magnum for the nice weather next year.
Thanks for everyone’s advice and any further help would be appreciated.
NShunter1254
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia Canada
Call me old fashioned but i see no reason to try less than ideal shots on small deer.
If its just about meat damage, the easy method is a bullet change. A TSX doesn't tear up a carcass near as bad as a softer bullet, and you are still well equipped for less than optimal shot angles on animals considerably larger than deer.
If itsjust about getting another gun, then just get whatever you want.
If itsjust about getting another gun, then just get whatever you want.
