Defense against BEARS.

[rhshooter]

Hey whats say we all just settle this, and every other bear defense thread, and perhaps even get BEAR DEFENSE MAGAZINE taken off the shelf once and for all.
Send an E-mail to MYTHBUSTERS, (they do internet myths quite often) and see if they can confirm or bust half the myths surrounding the grizzly bear and the like.
Here’s the ones I see and hear quite often on the topic. Yes some of these seem obviouse, but I found on MYTHBUSTERS some myths you think are true get busted, or the other way around.

-Can a bears skull really deflect a .416 Remington magnum?

-Are their muscles so hard and thick smaller calibers cant penetrate them?

-Can a bear run 200 yards with its heart shot out?

-Does pepper spray really work, or does it just piss the bear off?

-Shotguns are often the choice most decided on in Bear defense threads, are they actually a good choice?

-Can you kill a bear with a .22LR. or pistol.

-Does playing dead really work?

-Do grizzlies get so pissed they will over kill you even if you play dead?

-Can you escape a bear by climbing a tree that’s too small for it to climb, and too springy for it to push down?

-Can you denture a bear with a flair of flair gun?

-Can you kill a bear with your bare hands or with an edged weapon?

-If you set a bear on fire will it run away or fight on?

-Here’s a new one from me, can you drown, or denture a bear in deep water the same way raccoons drown wolves? by climbing on their back, then on their head and reputedly dunking them. or holding their head under water?

- How can you get an angry bear to give up and fully retreat 100% of the time, without killing it? (They are slowly becoming endangered you know.)

Feel free to add ones you have encountered in this or other Bear defense threads, or in BEAR DEFENSE THREAD MAGAZINE.Suscribe today and get 50% off the cover price. with a two year subscription.

MYTHBUSTERS offical websight link.
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/2991937776

I think they might run into a few animal cruelty laws on that show lol. Like the shooting a bear in the heart to see if he can run 200 yards (so if he runs 150 yds is the myth busted?) Setting bears on fire, shooting them with .22s, flares etc. just for a tv show would actually make me agree with the PETA protesters that would be freaking out off set.

I would be curious about which Mythbuster would get selected for the playing dead experiment... or the bare hands, knife and especially bear drowning experiments... I'm guessing Grant.

Jeff

 

[Pickles]

Well after reading this I guess I'll be selling my .416 and my Guide Gun.

Now, who makes a good grizz whacking ax?

 

[rhshooter]

Well after reading this I guess I'll be selling my .416 and my Guide Gun.

Now, who makes a good grizz whacking ax?

Yep, it turns out that a .416 (which can penetrate a cape buffalo's horns, skull, entire body and exit through it's butthole with a solid bullet) is no more capable of killing a rampaging grizzly than a 22LR from a pistol. I will trade you yours for a beautiful axe if you are interested...

Jeff

 

[=(M-1)=]

Yep, it turns out that a .416 (which can penetrate a cape buffalo's horns, skull, entire body and exit through it's butthole with a solid bullet) is no more capable of killing a rampaging grizzly than a 22LR from a pistol. I will trade you yours for a beautiful axe if you are interested...

Jeff

Sooo Fail! you just gave your life away, the next bear you meet is going to be a ninja bear, and that pitiful gun could do it no harm, as for your hand held super compact pocket axe, you'll be begging for it to your last breath, cursing the day you let it go for some punny little .416 Remington magnum. god that even sounds like a pittifully weak little fire arem. PATHETIC!!!

 

[bigrigdawson]

Quote:
Originally Posted by philthygeezer
I've read and heard that buckshot is useless. Personal experience seems to indicate same.

1. Bangers
2. Spray
3. Slugs or some rifle .308 or bigger.

Who the hell runs into bears so often? I've seen many and most of the time wasn't armed. Even that moron took years hanging around grizzlies until he got eaten by one. If you're working in bear country I can see being careful, but the average walk in the woods seems hardly worth worrying about.

I'll bet there's a huge distortion in statistical probability here, but it seems to sell guns.

I choose an ATC for an M30 grenade launcher. You might only get one good shot anyhow, and it would be a heck of a lot of fun the other 99.998% of the time. "
[/QUOTE]

By that moron you must mean Timothy Treadwell. One of the reasons why it took so many years for him to get killed is that the brown bears in Katmai national park are well fed. Unlike interior(grizzly) bears which are more aggressive, because food is not as abundant, as it is on kodiak island. The year he and his girlfriend got eaten, there was a shortage of food. A bad berry crop increased competition among the bears making them far more hungry and aggressive. This made Tim and his girlfriend aime a convenient meal for the hungry coastal brown bear.

 

[=(M-1)=]

I think they might run into a few animal cruelty laws on that show lol. Like the shooting a bear in the heart to see if he can run 200 yards (so if he runs 150 yds is the myth busted?) Setting bears on fire, shooting them with .22s, flares etc. just for a tv show would actually make me agree with the PETA protesters that would be freaking out off set.

I would be curious about which Mythbuster would get selected for the playing dead experiment... or the bare hands, knife and especially bear drowning experiments... I'm guessing Grant.

Jeff

They always find a way to use props or other alternatives instead if the real deal. Otherwise they would be killing people daily and on national TV!! ...<-. .

 

[rhshooter]

Sooo Fail! you just gave your life away, the next bear you meet is going to be a ninja bear, and that pitiful gun could do it no harm, as for your hand held super compact pocket axe, you'll be begging for it to your last breath, cursing the day you let it go for some punny little .416 Remington magnum. god that even sounds like a pittifully weak little fire arem. PATHETIC!!!

Whoa! Nobody said anything about ninja bears!!! I thought we were discussing normal, ordinary bearsharks... For ninja bears I always carry my Vulcan cannon...

Jeff

 

[rhshooter]

They always find a way to use props or other alternatives, instead if the real deal, otherwise they would be killing people daily and on national TV!! ...<-. .

Hard to test if lighting a bear on fire is effective bear defense unless you light a bear on fire... and what kind of prop would tell you if a bear with a shot in the heart could still keep running for a bit? I am very familiar with the show...

Jeff

 

[bigrigdawson]

This guy's axe didn't really help him too much.

"I put my head down because he was coming at me. I had my axe, but I couldn't hit him 'cause he was too close and he has an agenda," he said. "I threw my axe down and I said, 'the best thing I can do is play dead.'"

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...zzly_bear_survivor_080516/20080517?hub=Canada

This is a good point.

I could cite a few more examples of successful use of a hand axe to defend oneself from a bear attack. An ice pick has even been used to send a grizz to bear heaven.

I think your post just proves it depends who is behind the gun, axe, ice pick, flare gun, or molotov cocktail, and the size of the horse shoe in their ass at the time of an attack.

I think there are to many uncertainties to be able to say what is best to fend off a bear. I think it comes down to common sense and being aware of your surroundings that will keep you out of trouble. Rather than getting a false sense of security (feeling invincible) carrying a 375 416 to go deer hunting.

 

[StevieK]

Whoa! Nobody said anything about ninja bears!!! I thought we were discussing normal, ordinary bearsharks... For ninja bears I always carry my Vulcan cannon...

Jeff

Isn't it obvious, all bears are ninja bears. Since this is the millionth thread on bear defense, that must mean that all bears are trained ninja assassins. They all quietly lurk in anticipation. Choosing the perfect ambush point that places them within 200 yds so they can still get to you after their heart has been vaporized by an RPG. They also come from a direction which makes you incapable of drawing your dwarven wareaxe which they know is their only weakness.

I can't believe you didn't know this....It's a wonder you're still alive.

 

[=(M-1)=]

Oh how did I get sucked in to an internet debate with a short bus candidate I'll never know...
Yep, I must be a troll, years of enjoying firearms, hunting and the outdoors and openly sharing what little I KNOW on a fantastic forum full of very knowledgeable people, I've learned a lot on here, honest. Unfortunately I seem to have noticed lately an abundance of low post, new members who have such an amazing insight to the ways of the world I can hardly contain my enjoyment reading thier amazing insight.
So if i've hurt your feeling, get over it.
Shouldn't you be in school or on the youth forum anyway??


This has wasted enough of my time, I going to cook dinner, have a beer and decide how to spend my tax return.

You know something, your right, this is 'just about' the stupidest thing to argue about on the internet. (Note:just about...) yet here we are... This is CGN not 4chan, we should be above this sort of stuff. I'm the new guy so I'll take the rap. Besides it was only a theory, and their is no reason to believe that you were wrong, If you die in the water or on land, your still dead...

Enjoy your beer. Cheers.

 

[=(M-1)=]

Isn't it obvious, all bears are ninja bears. Since this is the millionth thread on bear defense, that must mean that all bears are trained ninja assassins. They all quietly lurk in anticipation. Choosing the perfect ambush point that places them within 200 yds so they can still get to you after their heart has been vaporized by an RPG. They also come from a direction which makes you incapable of drawing your dwarven wareaxe which they know is their only weakness.

I can't believe you didn't know this....It's a wonder you're still alive.

Oh my dear god in heaven, this whole time I've been packing a tomahawk thinking it would avail me if I used my patented super duper chop.
How... How am i still alive???

 

[rhshooter]

Just thought some bear pictures might be in order probably a repost.

Yep, handaxe is the way to go...

 

[Boomer]

Before this thread gets any sillier, let me say that bear defense is real for some people and that when done under stress or by someone who is inexperienced it can lead to unintended consequences.

Here we have a polar bear that was fired on with a shotgun firing cracker shells. The cracker shell exploded beyond the bear, you can see it in the air over his back, which of course sent him in the wrong direction.

Here we see the consequences of a bear that was wounded by a defensive firearm, in this case a rubber bullet from a shotgun that was fired at too close a range. Had that same POI been made with a shotgun slug or an appropriate rifle bullet, it would have been a stopping shot.

how many people seriously keep their shotguns/rifles loaded while hiking/camping as opposed to in the locked trunk while camping or unloaded while walking?

I can think of someone . . .

Looking for pepper spray canisters

 

[Billyboy13]

I bet the bears reading this thread are sitting there thinking of counter-measures to all these well thought out plans. Slug-proof body armour, Hand-axe resistant helmets, Ice-pick deflecting eye guards, full face resirators.
What are we gonna do now?

 

[=(M-1)=]

Before this thread gets any sillier, let me say that bear defense is real for some people and that when done under stress or by someone who is inexperienced it can lead to unintended consequences.

Well as fun and silly as bear defence threads can get. There is certianly a point to them, In my case, I started this thread because my sister in law will be taking a tour into the great north this summer to do some dino-digging, and she was concerned about polar bears and wanted to bring my Winchester 1300 defender with her. But I also have a Tavor with double stacked 10 shot mags. and was thinking maybe getting some M-855 bullets for it. But I'd beh happier to send her north with a Norinco M305 and a couple of AIA ten shot bolt action rifle mags for it, but I dont have the money just yet to purchase that combo. She and my brother have two young kids, who would very much want her to come back in one piece. So this thread was sort of a resurch threat to find out what guns people who survive theses sort of attacks use. and weather or not pepper spray really works.

 

[Doc M]

I bet the bears reading this thread are sitting there thinking of counter-measures to all these well thought out plans. Slug-proof body armour, Hand-axe resistant helmets, Ice-pick deflecting eye guards, full face resirators.
What are we gonna do now?

Well, for black bears in Alberta, with the new proposed body armor controls we should be fine... they won't be able to get the stuff.

Same for BC now, unless anyone knows 'security bears' who have vests already.

-M

 

[Eastford]

Well as fun and silly as bear defence threads can get. There is certianly a point to them, In my case, I started this thread because my sister in law will be taking a tour into the great north this summer to do some dino-digging, and she was concerned about polar bears and wanted to bring my Winchester 1300 defender with her. But I also have a Tavor with double stacked 10 shot mags. and was thinking maybe getting some M-855 bullets for it. But I'd beh happier to send her north with a Norinco M305 and a couple of AIA ten shot bolt action rifle mags for it, but I dont have the money just yet to purchase that combo. She and my brother have two young kids, who would very much want her to come back in one piece. So this thread was sort of a resurch threat to find out what guns people who survive theses sort of attacks use. and weather or not pepper spray really works.

Generally speaking, Shotty's with slugs or big bore rifles seems to be the choice by the majority. Bear spray might stop a bear, or buy you time to unsling and ready whatever firearm you carry. There is of course no 100% guarantee that either will save your life, but at least you'll have a fighting chance compared to being unarmed.

If your sister in law chooses to carry a firearm make sure she practices with it. No firearm is going to save her if she get stuck trying to find the safety or gets knocked on her ass by the recoil or misses the target. Odds are that she might only get off a couple shots so she better make them count.

You might want to check out Mark Matheny's website as he is a grizzly attack survivor.

http://www.udap.com/markfullstory.htm
Website may contain graphic images

What ever your sister in law chooses to do I wish her well and that she'll return safely.

 

[Slimbo]

Well as fun and silly as bear defence threads can get. There is certianly a point to them, In my case, I started this thread because my sister in law will be taking a tour into the great north this summer to do some dino-digging, and she was concerned about polar bears and wanted to bring my Winchester 1300 defender with her. But I also have a Tavor with double stacked 10 shot mags. and was thinking maybe getting some M-855 bullets for it. But I'd beh happier to send her north with a Norinco M305 and a couple of AIA ten shot bolt action rifle mags for it, but I dont have the money just yet to purchase that combo. She and my brother have two young kids, who would very much want her to come back in one piece. So this thread was sort of a resurch threat to find out what guns people who survive theses sort of attacks use. and weather or not pepper spray really works.

Whatever she chooses....proficiency is key. She needs to be able to think and place her shots under extreme duress, and that one comes with practice. A solid hit with a .223 is better than a near miss with a .458.

 

[=(M-1)=]

Generally speaking, Shotty's with slugs or big bore rifles seems to be the choice by the majority. Bear spray might stop a bear, or buy you time to unsling and ready whatever firearm you carry. There is of course no 100% guarantee that either will save your life, but at least you'll have a fighting chance compared to being unarmed.

If your sister in law chooses to carry a firearm make sure she practices with it. No firearm is going to save her if she get stuck trying to find the safety or gets knocked on her ass by the recoil or misses the target. Odds are that she might only get off a couple shots so she better make them count.
What ever your sister in law chooses to do I wish her well and that she'll return safely.

I plan on giving her some lessons in shooting the shotty, such as shooting 3"magnum 000 buck, and 1 oz. slugs. also distributing recoil between front and rear pistol grips. and the little things that often are over looked, like operating the action release, or loading the first shell into the chamber before loading the magazine, could save her life. Further more, i'll also be giving her a can of pepper spray, and (as of the information found in this thread,) a flair gun. I seems like a lot, but she will be spening much of her day wandering the plains looking for dino bones, also digging them up. she will probibly spend most of her days out doors for a good many weeks. and she cant exactly pack up and leave if she gets a little scaired, or she may never be invited to go on these various intercontinental dio-digs again.

Whatever she chooses....proficiency is key. She needs to be able to think and place her shots under extreme duress, and that one comes with practice. A solid hit with a .223 is better than a near miss with a .458.

I have a high powered green laser sight mounted on a tri rail that seems to work well out to 50 yards. its so bright you can see its full beam at night and to out ranges several kiliometers, I was shocked when I first used it, it works off a pressure switch on the fore grip, its so powerful you can use it as a flashlight aswell. I also mounted my Mepro reflex sight off my Tavor on to my shottys picatinny rail. Its a cool sighting system, it uses the same light capturing plastic used in high-vis. sights, except it is used to cast a hologram on to lens of the sighting system, just like a red dot holo sight, the reticle folows the line of sight so there is no need to center it, just put it on the target and fire, it works as a night sight too, even in near pitch black.But unlike a red dot, it doesnt need batterys, so she My sister in law will have some state of the art sighing options for which ever firarm she chooses to take. but if all else faile, it has a fixed ghost ring sights too.

Thanks for your concern guy!