del
- Thread starter superbee
- Start date
Yes,I am aware of the regulations regarding reloading components, and when they came into place.
My last buying trip down south was at least 10 or 11 years ago....(pre 9/11)......at that time it was legal to purchase reloading supplies and ammunition.
Those export checks are indeed looking for ANYONE illegally taking ammunition/Reloading components out of the U.S.......Homeland Security has little or no sense of Ha Ha when it comes to this stuff. A few CGN members have related their experiences coming through these spot border checks........it was not a very pleasant experience...........One CGN member was detained for over 8 hours before being released......
This is the case unless you happen to be a dual citizen.
If you are an American citizen you can bring up to 1,000 rounds into Canada for personal use.
22 C.F.R. § 123.16 Exemptions of general applicability.
(a) The following exemptions apply to exports of unclassified defense articles for which no approval is needed from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls. These exemptions do not apply to: Proscribed destinations under §126.1 of this subchapter; exports for which Congressional notification is required (see §123.15 of this subchapter); MTCR articles; Significant Military Equipment (SME); and may not be used by persons who are generally ineligible as described in §120.1(c) of this subchapter. All shipments of defense articles, including those to and from Canada, require a Shipper's Export Declaration (SED) or notification letter. If the export of a defense article is exempt from licensing, the SED must cite the exemption. Refer to §123.22 for Shipper's Export Declaration and letter notification requirements.
(b) The following exports are exempt from the licensing requirements of this subchapter.
...
(6) For exemptions for firearms and ammunition for personal use refer to §123.17.
22 C.F.R. § 123.17 Exports of firearms and ammunition.
...
e) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit U.S. persons to export without a license ammunition for nonautomatic firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section if the quantity does not exceed 1,000 cartridges (or rounds) in any shipment. The ammunition must also be for personal use and not for resale or other transfer of ownership.
...
Definitions
...
§ 120.15 U.S. person.
U.S. person means a person (as defined in §120.14 of this part) who is a lawful permanent resident as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20) or who is a protected individual as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3). It also means any corporation, business association, partnership, society, trust, or any other entity, organization or group that is incorporated to do business in the United States. It also includes any governmental (federal, state or local) entity. It does not include any foreign person as defined in §120.16 of this part.
8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3)
...
(3) "Protected individual'' defined
As used in paragraph (1), the term ``protected individual''
means an individual who--
(A) is a citizen or national of the United States, or
(B) is an alien who is lawfully admitted for permanent residence...
If you are an American citizen you can bring up to 1,000 rounds into Canada for personal use.
22 C.F.R. § 123.16 Exemptions of general applicability.
(a) The following exemptions apply to exports of unclassified defense articles for which no approval is needed from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls. These exemptions do not apply to: Proscribed destinations under §126.1 of this subchapter; exports for which Congressional notification is required (see §123.15 of this subchapter); MTCR articles; Significant Military Equipment (SME); and may not be used by persons who are generally ineligible as described in §120.1(c) of this subchapter. All shipments of defense articles, including those to and from Canada, require a Shipper's Export Declaration (SED) or notification letter. If the export of a defense article is exempt from licensing, the SED must cite the exemption. Refer to §123.22 for Shipper's Export Declaration and letter notification requirements.
(b) The following exports are exempt from the licensing requirements of this subchapter.
...
(6) For exemptions for firearms and ammunition for personal use refer to §123.17.
22 C.F.R. § 123.17 Exports of firearms and ammunition.
...
e) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit U.S. persons to export without a license ammunition for nonautomatic firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section if the quantity does not exceed 1,000 cartridges (or rounds) in any shipment. The ammunition must also be for personal use and not for resale or other transfer of ownership.
...
Definitions
...
§ 120.15 U.S. person.
U.S. person means a person (as defined in §120.14 of this part) who is a lawful permanent resident as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20) or who is a protected individual as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3). It also means any corporation, business association, partnership, society, trust, or any other entity, organization or group that is incorporated to do business in the United States. It also includes any governmental (federal, state or local) entity. It does not include any foreign person as defined in §120.16 of this part.
8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3)
...
(3) "Protected individual'' defined
As used in paragraph (1), the term ``protected individual''
means an individual who--
(A) is a citizen or national of the United States, or
(B) is an alien who is lawfully admitted for permanent residence...
dual citizen or not, you have to have State Department approval to export ammunition and a significant amount of firearms parts, components and bits. See the noted thread from Jdman. People are mixing up importation, exportation, possession and laws allowing purchasing. At the end of the day, you need US State Deportment export licence to take ammo out of the country.
As someone said above....make sure you understand your question, so you understand the answer if you call to the US. If you get it wrong, you can loose your car and possessions, jail time and be banned from the US...
As someone said above....make sure you understand your question, so you understand the answer if you call to the US. If you get it wrong, you can loose your car and possessions, jail time and be banned from the US...
That's not what I was told by CBP and BATF. I really don't want to complicate things any worse than they already are (seeing as how most people here are not Dual or US citizens) but I'd like to take this chance to clear up this misconception.
I was quoted the exact same piece of law that "Commonlawyer" provided.
You need a permit to export crap...blah..blah..blah
Oh? whats this, an exception? Let's read further...
Ah...so "some" people (US PERSONS) ARE ALLOWED to export 1,000 rounds without a permit. Let's see if I qualify?
So for me to be allowed to export my 1,000 rounds, I have to be a "US Person". Well, I'm sure not a lawful PERMANENT RESIDENT
...oh maybe I qualify as a protected individual?I'm a citizen of the United States, so I meet criteria "A"...that makes me a "US Person"
So.....just like CBP and BATF told me:
Prior to crossing that imaginary line, I'm a US citizen...which makes me a US Person....which allows me an exception of 1,000 rounds.
No different than Billy-Joe from Alabama who decides he's gonna go hunting at one of them fancy lodges in Canada.
When I cross into Canada:
I'm a Canadian citizen...which means I qualify for 5,000 rounds worth of exemption.
But as always, don't believe some dude on the internet....call them and check for yourself. Explain it just like it is and see what they say. Dual Citizens will be pleasantly surprised
So as an American Citizen (Dual or Canadian resident) you can then export up to 1,000 rounds of ammo per shipment.
However, as per the section
you can't export from the US, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 7.62x51 and other military designated caliber ammo, as these are designed for automatic firearms. However if it is stamped 223 Rem, or 308 Win, then it is OK.
This is also consistent with rumblings that were heard last year about export restrictions and supply of military ammo from the US.
However, as per the section
you can't export from the US, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 7.62x51 and other military designated caliber ammo, as these are designed for automatic firearms. However if it is stamped 223 Rem, or 308 Win, then it is OK.
This is also consistent with rumblings that were heard last year about export restrictions and supply of military ammo from the US.
No worries. This has been explored, commented on and confirmed. Your citizenship does not allow you to export items without DoS approval if they are listed as controled items. Period. If they are on the list, you MUST have an export licence from DoS. You have to confirm that 100% with the DoS. Comments above are from other agencies and not from the DoS. If you get this wrong, the cost can be rather high.
So don't take my word for it, get hold of the DoS, confirm in writing that the items are exportable without an export licence, then confirm with the other agencies such as Homeland Security, BATF and Customs in writing to make sure your in compliance with their regs and requirements. Quoting CGN will not help you one bit. The guys on the border will not mess around and you could find yourself in club fed.
Have fun...
So don't take my word for it, get hold of the DoS, confirm in writing that the items are exportable without an export licence, then confirm with the other agencies such as Homeland Security, BATF and Customs in writing to make sure your in compliance with their regs and requirements. Quoting CGN will not help you one bit. The guys on the border will not mess around and you could find yourself in club fed.
Have fun...
Novega, im my limited experience I have found that alot of lawyers routinely provide incorrect advice or lack knowledge on many legal topics that are not common run of the mill stuff like divorce, family law or other basic stuff.
I would never ever listen to "advice from either CBP or BATFE". Unless you have a formal letter or copy of the regs directly from the DOS and perhaps a representative of them on speed dial- you could be taking your chances.
Whats the ammo really worth to you?
I would never ever listen to "advice from either CBP or BATFE". Unless you have a formal letter or copy of the regs directly from the DOS and perhaps a representative of them on speed dial- you could be taking your chances.
Whats the ammo really worth to you?
DoS is only concerned about controlling the export of controlled items. I can apply for an export licence....or a US citizen, the process for approval is the same. Once you have the licence in hand, the process is rather simple to export like any other goods.
The DoS is concerned about what is being exported, not as much as by whom...
A US citizen can not export Ar15 magazines for example, even though there are no restriction on ownership (most states). NVG, most weapons parts, ammunition....you would be surprised what is on the list. Collapsible stocks, barrels under 16 inches....the list goes on and on.
Doug The Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- central Ontario
This is not the official site...but a dump of the data (which is in constant flux)
I have a paper copy of the Munitions List (work related) and the data on this link appear to be pretty recent.
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/offdocs/itar/p121.htm
Use at you rown risk...and as always better safe than sorry...
These people don't #### around
They might not take you to court, but the agent can seize your property, including your car, escort you out of the country and ban you from returning....without going to court. So feel free to plead ignorance of US laws. If your paperwork supports what you have and allows you taking it back...no worries. Just make sure your paperwork is in order.
I'll contact them sometime early next week. They're the only guys I haven't spoken to yet. Mostly b/c export control checks are manned by CPB / DHS. I'm just relaying what I was told by them and BATF...I want to do everything legit too, I'm not out to break any laws.
Doesn't make much difference anyhow...#1 Most people on the site aren't US citizens and #2 Even when I wanted to bring back my 1,000 rounds (2 weeks ago) there's nothing but empty shelves and high prices in NY State.
I'll check with the State Dept. regarding export next week though.
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
I sooo miss the early 90's when I lived on the border. All my money went to the US for ammo, guns, components. Times were good back then, except for that Bill Clinton fellow.
Nothing goes across the border now without paperwork....you think ammo is hard to get out of the country, deal with reptiles like I do and see what it takes to get a shipment of rattlesnakes out of the US legally, you'll pull your hair out.
Nothing goes across the border now without paperwork....you think ammo is hard to get out of the country, deal with reptiles like I do and see what it takes to get a shipment of rattlesnakes out of the US legally, you'll pull your hair out.
Doug The Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- central Ontario
Why would anyone WANT to get a shipment of rattlesnakes out of the US?
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
Life of a biologist that specializes in venoms......
Doug The Canuck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- central Ontario
From Lost Target:
"At the US border on NY I-87, U.S. border authorities were set up maybe 100 yards south of the Canadian border, checking all vehicles going to Canada."
"At the US border on NY I-87, U.S. border authorities were set up maybe 100 yards south of the Canadian border, checking all vehicles going to Canada."
