Diemaco C8 worth the price?

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What "loyal customers"? Until now cc has never sold to the public.

Tdc

Potential loyal customers maybe? I always thought that Colt as a name has had a pretty big following up here, and many have looked into acquiring a Colt product or wished they could have. Many Canadian firearm owners were probably fans of Colt products and many were very loyal to the brand Colt, long before the SA20 and SA15.7. Those customers could easily have become Colt Canada's loyal customers, but perhaps these recent events have soured that feeling a bit?
 
Potential loyal customers maybe? I always thought that Colt as a name has had a pretty big following up here, and many have looked into acquiring a Colt product or wished they could have. Many Canadian firearm owners were probably fans of Colt products and many were very loyal to the brand Colt, long before the SA20 and SA15.7. Those customers could easily have become Colt Canada's loyal customers, but perhaps these recent events have soured that feeling a bit?

Are you saying colt USA and cc are the same company? I believe they are, and colt rifles have been available for decades.

Loyalty is based on trust and respect. Cc and korth have done nothing to instill either feeling in anyone with an IQ above room temperature. Loyalty also works both ways and is near non existent in the firearms industry in this country. Screwing the customer is the name of the game.

If you think your loyalty means something to a vendor or manufacturer you would be sadly mistaken.

Tdc
 
Colt name but right you are, Also as a service rifle used in combat, Iv never complained

Since you have been in combat with this rifle they should look at this closely. I appreciate your service.
My son is a reservist in the artillery and he wants one bad. He is going to buy with the special price along with myself.
I would be pissed if I paid hundreds more a month ago.
 
Anyone who paid the original price got what they paid for, an overpriced rifle. Anyone who pays the "discounted" price is getting what they pay for, an overpriced rifle. Korth and CC are taking the Canadian consumer for the suckers they are. If you want to change the game stop playing by their rules. You want value, demand it, forking over hard earned cash for over rated and over priced firearms is not the way. I find it funny how all the fan boys and "industry experts" were touting these as worthy of the price, only to see it dropped $300 in a few weeks flat. Common sense isn't so common anymore, can't really blame the industry for taking advantage of it with so many willing participants. Neither Korth nor CC will see a penny from me.
 
So in post #319 you state Colt Canada has never sold to public and now you say they are the same company Colt USA/Colt CDN that has sold to the public for decades, so which is it? Maybe before you comment you should make up your mind.

Are you saying colt USA and cc are the same company? I believe they are, and colt rifles have been available for decades.

Loyalty is based on trust and respect. Cc and korth have done nothing to instill either feeling in anyone with an IQ above room temperature. Loyalty also works both ways and is near non existent in the firearms industry in this country. Screwing the customer is the name of the game.

If you think your loyalty means something to a vendor or manufacturer you would be sadly mistaken.

Tdc





Oh and regarding a previous post of yours concerning CDN C7's and C8's not seeing much service. I was actually referring to all the abuse these rifles go through during training (particularly new recruits); the abuse these rifles take from rookie soldiers dropping them during drill/runs (generally due to fatigue) again and again all the while performing reliably and accurately is not to be dismissed lightly.

Also for the record the Canadian issued C7/C8 rifles are not identical to the USA issued M4 rifle as you seem to believe.
 
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Wouldnt know been issued a C7A1, C7A2, C8 FTHB, C8. Wouldn't know nothing about Diemaco. So Slap a Diemaco barrel on a Norc will it shoot the same? Prolly. Most people DITCHED the ambi mag release and charging handle in Theater since it was a POS. Triad and Cadex Those were junk accessories.

I just have to Laugh, Because every year always a different debate about the BEST AR... Then another company comes around and must have that... All these are are must have pieces. Since most WONT shoot it like they they're trying to compare it to. Buy a DD, trick it out, shoot 25m? THEN need the BEST MOA?

I would like to comment on your post above, but find it difficult to follow your grammar. Are you saying you have been issued a C7/C8 or have not?

So putting a CHF barrel like what KAC offers makes a Norc a KAC, that's good to know as it will save everybody a lot of cash.


Also what are you attempting to say by stating "since most WON'T shoot it like they they're trying to compare it to"? (compare what to what?) and
"Then need the best MOA" I'm guessing this means because you only shoot to 25m due to your comment about the DD?


and finally if you read my posts you would know I did exactly that and bought a DD; no tricking out required, but sights/optics.


(I mean no dis-respect if English is a second language as the lord knows my French sucks.)
 
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Anyone notice the $300 price drop on them? Hmmmm. Maybe they know they priced them to high , because all the dealers lowered their price.
 
So in post #319 you state Colt Canada has never sold to public and now you say they are the same company Colt USA/Colt CDN that has sold to the public for decades, so which is it? Maybe before you comment you should make up your mind.







Oh and regarding a previous post of yours concerning CDN C7's and C8's not seeing much service. I was actually referring to all the abuse these rifles go through during training (particularly new recruits); the abuse these rifles take from rookie soldiers dropping them during drill/runs (generally due to fatigue) again and again all the while performing reliably and accurately is not to be dismissed lightly.

Also for the record the Canadian issued C7/C8 rifles are not identical to the USA issued M4 rifle as you seem to believe.

Try and follow along.

Colt USA owns Colt Canada. Colt Canada is just the Canadian manufacturing plant for Colt USA. Colt Canada used to be known as Diemaco, which was sold to Colt USA in 2006 if memory serves. By definition, NO Colt Canada rifles have ever been available to the public. That is to say, no rifles manufactured in the Canadian facility were made available to the public.

With that being said, there is no posibility for "loyal customers" as CC has technically never sold any rifles to the public. What I was getting at with some tongue in cheek(which appears to have eluded some) is that by buying any Colt product, you are in fact a loyal customer, as CC is in fact part of Colt USA. However, many here seem to believe that the CC rifles are some sort of rare ultra accurate super robust special edition of a MIL SPEC rifle that is unmatched by its own brand, known as Colt USA.

As for your comments on surviving abuse. As mentioned, Colt USA guns survive the same abuse from US forces, and the abuse is mostly cosmetic blemishes that have zero effect on function or reliability. So yeah, go CC rifles!

Can ANYONE post the specs on the CC rifles and point us all to what makes them such super duper rifles that justifies either of the two prices that have been published as of late?? I have yet to see any FACTS that indicate what makes the CC rifle so amazing..

TDC
 
Can ANYONE post the specs on the CC rifles and point us all to what makes them such super duper rifles that justifies either of the two prices that have been published as of late?? I have yet to see any FACTS that indicate what makes the CC rifle so amazing..

TDC

I asked this very same question a few times, from my understanding the only real big difference is the CHF barrel, the remainder are minor tweaks none of which amount to a $1200 odd premium over the US Colt. I would be willing to pay $200-300 extra at most that's about it, but then might as well just take the leap and get a DD with more features.

From another forum:

Hi Steve
I apologize for not answering sooner. I‘m afraid I have been avoiding the
alligators chewing on my ankles to take care of the ones feeding higher up.
To answer your questions as presented:
The effective range published does not have much to do with the barrel but
is an infantry doctrine distance to do with the whole system including the
man, sights, weapon ammunition and expected employment. So when you see
effective range, it is almost always a subjective assessment of the system
capability derived by the user instructor (CTC) and rifle requirements
office (DLR), usually before the weapon is even bought. In the case of the
C7 it included iron sights and was extended (I think) when the C79 sight and
the C7A1 came along. The reference to the rifles origins (M16A1E1) is in
reference to the sight option first chosen by the CF. The heavy front
profile, 1 turn in 7inch barrel is definitely M16A2. As is the cartridge
deflector, handguards and many other changes.

Now lets talk barrels:
The C7 barrel is not the same as any M16 barrel except for the exterior
profile which is M16A2. The Material is to a formula developed here in
Diemaco (under Gov‘t contract) so that the entire bore and chamber
configuration can be integrally formed in one operation on a rotary hammer
forge. This process produces a barrel that is much stronger than the US
M16A2 barrel. The bore dimensions were developed to fire C77 ammunition,
(Chamber, bullet lead, diameters) the bore has dimensional reduction as the
bullet moves forward (squeeze) to increase life and accuracy. The bore is
plated with harder chrome than the M16. This allows greater wear life (2 to
3 times M16) and lets us machine C9 barrels from the same barrel blank. The
SFW was recently tested and purchased by the UK special forces and won in
competition against the Swiss SIG series rifles and the H&K G36 rifle. This
barrel is now in use by the Special Forces in five countries and the US Navy
Seals have expressed interest in putting them in the M4 Carbines that they
have.
We have just completed a C8 Carbine upgrade program for Canada which is a
new barrel with an improved chamber and stronger extractor spring assembly
and a weaker ejector spring. These are the same internal configuration as
our very successful SFW barrel.

Differences:
The C7 rifle and C8 Carbine is made under license with a Tech Data Package
provided by Colt to the Canadian Gov‘t. Diemaco reviewed the design and
made about 150 changes to the drawing package before Canadian production.
These are to numerous to mention her but include things like materials and
processes as well as a different barrel configuration and manufacturing
processes.

The improved handguard we designed here after CWO John Ginn kept beating the
Colt version off the weapon on the parade square. You probably can‘t tell
from the outside but if the you take the handguard off, you will notice two
types. The improved version has two large ribs under the heat shield and
three interlocking ribs on either edge as well as different material. These
were introduced late in the program so they had to be interchangable and be
a good match with the old handguard.

Another change you may notice is the small diameter front sight post that we
developed when soldiers complained that the US large square one actually
obscured the target at ranges of 300 and greater.

I hope this helps you with the discussion and thank you for your interest in
the C7.

Ian Anderson
ILS Supervisor
Product Engineering Dept.
Diemaco a division of Heroux- Devtek

Please note: Any opinions expressed or implied in this email are personal
are not necessarily those of Heroux Devtek or Diemaco
 
I asked this very same question a few times, from my understanding the only real big difference is the CHF barrel, the remainder are minor tweaks none of which amount to a $1200 odd premium over the US Colt. I would be willing to pay $200-300 extra at most that's about it, but then might as well just take the leap and get a DD with more features.

From another forum:

So a CHF barrel is somehow a CC exclusive that justifies the stupid price tag? Amazing how almost no one has come forward with this laundry list of "improvements" to justify the price. :rolleyes:

TDC
 
I would like to comment on your post above, but find it difficult to follow your grammar. Are you saying you have been issued a C7/C8 or have not?

So putting a CHF barrel like what KAC offers makes a Norc a KAC, that's good to know as it will save everybody a lot of cash.


Also what are you attempting to say by stating "since most WON'T shoot it like they they're trying to compare it to"? (compare what to what?) and
"Then need the best MOA" I'm guessing this means because you only shoot to 25m due to your comment about the DD?


and finally if you read my posts you would know I did exactly that and bought a DD; no tricking out required, but sights/optics.


(I mean no dis-respect if English is a second language as the lord knows my French sucks.)

Well lets see.....Rob has been a member here for as long as I can remember...pre 2004 days....and served in the forces. Maybe you could show a little respect.
He's saying every year there is a new "must have" rifle that is tougher and more accurate then anything else out there, that everyone jumps on and can't shut up about how great it is on this board to the point of absurdity, when in reality they "baby" these rifles at the range and don't put them through the paces like an issed rifle will see. We get posts and pics and vids of 25m targets with ####ty groups, occasionally 50m with worse groups, and praise of how these are the best rifles ever.
So for what 99% of the CGN shooting community will be doing with these rifles, yeah...they may be better off throwing a decent barrel on a cheap rifle and call it a day....
 
Well lets see.....Rob has been a member here for as long as I can remember...pre 2004 days....and served in the forces. Maybe you could show a little respect.
He's saying every year there is a new "must have" rifle that is tougher and more accurate then anything else out there, that everyone jumps on and can't shut up about how great it is on this board to the point of absurdity, when in reality they "baby" these rifles at the range and don't put them through the paces like an issed rifle will see. We get posts and pics and vids of 25m targets with ####ty groups, occasionally 50m with worse groups, and praise of how these are the best rifles ever.
So for what 99% of the CGN shooting community will be doing with these rifles, yeah...they may be better off throwing a decent barrel on a cheap rifle and call it a day....


Great post/reply.
 
Man this thread got ugly, haha!

So, what are they worth? (not what it costs to manufacture, not what it should wholesale at, what it's worth). What's it worth to CNGers? Let's hear a no BS assessment of what you'd be willing to pay for the C7/SA20 and what would you be willing to pay for the C8/SA15.7, taking into consideration the competition, and be fair, the CHF barrel in these Colt Canada rifles. After all this debate, I'm curious what each one of you is willing to pay for one or what you all think each should sell for, taking into consideration current market conditions, immediate competition, rifle features etc.
 
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SA15.7, about $1500. So with the Mil/LE price, I'm close enough to go for it. And when CC comes out with the IUR, I'll probably get one of those as well.

I've paid more for less... A few years ago, a Colt 6920 upper went for more than that.
 
Well lets see.....Rob has been a member here for as long as I can remember...pre 2004 days....and served in the forces. Maybe you could show a little respect.
He's saying every year there is a new "must have" rifle that is tougher and more accurate then anything else out there, that everyone jumps on and can't shut up about how great it is on this board to the point of absurdity, when in reality they "baby" these rifles at the range and don't put them through the paces like an issed rifle will see. We get posts and pics and vids of 25m targets with ####ty groups, occasionally 50m with worse groups, and praise of how these are the best rifles ever.
So for what 99% of the CGN shooting community will be doing with these rifles, yeah...they may be better off throwing a decent barrel on a cheap rifle and call it a day....

I don't look at how long someone's been a member or how many posts they've made, what I do respect is that they derive the data from my post I'm attempting to express. In this situation (and others cough TDC) it seems my fellow CGN'er is not understanding that I am in agreement and always have been and if my previous posts had been understood you would know that while the CC rifles are a very high quality AR rifle they were initially offered highly overpriced. Therefore the reason I bought a DD for $1,200 instead of a CC rifle.
 
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