discrete film crew bear gun for North of 60....

K.I.S.S.
Look up the recent post showing the results of a mauling by a bear.
Don't play the gunshop commando game of accessorizing the gun.
If you need a firearm, it must be available, simple and powerful.
A long time ex-park ranger I knew used a .30-06 to dispatch a number of problem bears. No complaints.
If it is necessary to kill a bear in self defence, it will likely be at close range.
If you have messed around with non-lethal stuff, it will definitely be at close range. The bear will likely be really P.O.'ed as well. Things will be happening fast. Think about how close to a bear you have to be to use pepper spray. Pepper spray is better than nothing, but a powerful firearm is much better than pepper spray.
I have personally removed broken cartridge cases from 2 institutional bear defence guns that had been fired with cracker rounds. Don't worry about using a flashlight - the gun will be jammed up solid, and will require tools to restore function.
Whatever firearm you select, practice with it enough to know that you can use it effectively under the circumstances that will prevail.
 
ok for starters folding stocks are for the most part purely estetic*spelling?*
if you want a "half decent bear defence gun that is sorta reliable " you might look at the norinco clones of the 870 in the 18.5 inch barrel or even an actual rem 870 in 18.5 inch then spend ALOT!!! of time at a range or in the bush in a safe area "getting to know" how your new shottie handles how it feels and what it can do with slugs or heavy buck shot(look at 10- 20 hours of practice time) before you even think of using it for defence in the bush then learn about bear bioligy in specific the kill zones that you must hit with said shottie because if you miss one of these kill zones or start useing rubber bullets your just gonna make it mad and end up being a pile of scat in the bush somewhere as far as bear bangers go again your just gonna piss it off and probebly screw your nice new shottie up so stop worrying about being politicly correct by only scareing the attaqcking bear and put a SOLID LEAD slug into one of the kill zones because i dont know about you but my life is worth more then the bears when it come down to life or death.
if your worryied about moisture and the finish talk to one of the coating guys here Skullboy, murdoc, sendero, or even your gunsmith about differnt types of durable weatherproof coatings on the markett today as there are a few
my 2 cents
 
This is thread is worse than re-runs of The Brady Bunch ... give it a break.

Any film crew worth it's salt should be able to afford specific security for it's needs. Hire a local who KNOWS what he's doing ... trusting security to an amateur is very un-professional and likely extremely dangerous.

Sure as hell wouldn't get me working up there with this guy as "back-up".
 
I'm obviously getting to this thread a bit late, lol, but I am currently in the market for a polar bear boomer myself and therefore read this all with interest. I work in various areas in Nunavut doing marine mammal research, camping at coastal sites, and polar bears are a constant threat (such as having them wake you up at 6 AM because they are ON THE ROOF of the cabin, or waking up to see one taking the battery out of your boat..)!

We (Government researchers) typically carry 12 gauge pumps, and are trained with the same weapons. Company guns include both Rems and Wins, I think there might be a Mossberg or two kicking around, I'm not sure because I always take the 870 :)

A comment on recoil, being a poor shot, etc. - we do our live-fire training here in Winnipeg, and every year we have people who've never shot a gun at all before. Some people are downright scared at the start. Within a couple of hours they are comfortably shooting 2 3/4" slugs with speed and accuracy. We start out with bird shot and work our way up. For the final "test" we have to run up to the gun, pick it up and shoot whatever targets the instructor identifies. Sometimes we have to load it ourselves, other times it will be loaded by the instructor. This is where things get interesting: Dave will often mix a slug or two in with the bird shot, and he screams and yells at people while they are shooting. People's adrenaline gets so high when they are being yelled and screamed at that they don't even notice the recoil. People in the back can tell when slugs are being shot because of the sound difference, but I have yet to see someone come back from the line and be able to tell which rounds were the slugs - they are so pumped up they don't even notice. I think when Nanuk is steaming down on you recoil will be least of your worries.

I have full faith in a 12 gauge and slugs for bear defence, but I still want a big rifle instead. Anyone know if Garrett 45-70 loads are available here in Canada? Will randy ship here, or is there a Canadian distributor? I'm planning to contact Randy directly but maybe someone here knows. If I can get Garrett loads then a 45-70 Guide Gun is likely in my future...

If I can't get Garrett loads here (don't handload) then I'm thinking .338 Win Mag, will handle a bear but also not too huge for "regular" use...I'm on a limited budget and want something as versatile as possible.
 
Can-down said:
I wonder what ever became of FilmBearGunGuy.........:confused:
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bear_scat_ruler.jpg
 
Read the instruction sheet for the Form 6NIA.

filmbeargun said:
I am looking at getting a folding stock, recoil-compensated (Cop-stock) 12 gauge pump-action shotgun...It also has to be able to cross the US border, so 18 inch plus barrels are what I am looking for...
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Gatehouse said:
Forget the folding stocks. You NEED a regular, ful lenght stock...You better check the US laws for importing guns...
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http://www.atf.gov/
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm
http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53303d.pdf
 
Icehunter said:
I'm obviously getting to this thread a bit late, lol, but I am currently in the market for a polar bear boomer myself and therefore read this all with interest. I work in various areas in Nunavut doing marine mammal research, camping at coastal sites, and polar bears are a constant threat (such as having them wake you up at 6 AM because they are ON THE ROOF of the cabin, or waking up to see one taking the battery out of your boat..)!

We (Government researchers) typically carry 12 gauge pumps, and are trained with the same weapons. Company guns include both Rems and Wins, I think there might be a Mossberg or two kicking around, I'm not sure because I always take the 870 :)

A comment on recoil, being a poor shot, etc. - we do our live-fire training here in Winnipeg, and every year we have people who've never shot a gun at all before. Some people are downright scared at the start. Within a couple of hours they are comfortably shooting 2 3/4" slugs with speed and accuracy. We start out with bird shot and work our way up. For the final "test" we have to run up to the gun, pick it up and shoot whatever targets the instructor identifies. Sometimes we have to load it ourselves, other times it will be loaded by the instructor. This is where things get interesting: Dave will often mix a slug or two in with the bird shot, and he screams and yells at people while they are shooting. People's adrenaline gets so high when they are being yelled and screamed at that they don't even notice the recoil. People in the back can tell when slugs are being shot because of the sound difference, but I have yet to see someone come back from the line and be able to tell which rounds were the slugs - they are so pumped up they don't even notice. I think when Nanuk is steaming down on you recoil will be least of your worries.

I have full faith in a 12 gauge and slugs for bear defence, but I still want a big rifle instead. Anyone know if Garrett 45-70 loads are available here in Canada? Will randy ship here, or is there a Canadian distributor? I'm planning to contact Randy directly but maybe someone here knows. If I can get Garrett loads then a 45-70 Guide Gun is likely in my future...

If I can't get Garrett loads here (don't handload) then I'm thinking .338 Win Mag, will handle a bear but also not too huge for "regular" use...I'm on a limited budget and want something as versatile as possible.
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I dare say you might have started a new thread.

You get to stay in cabins??? Lucky boy, when the bear is on the roof of the tent, eating the seats in the helicopter, or chewing holes in the Zodiac, you have a problem.

I don't know what your own firearms experience is, but lets assume it is restricted to the pump shotguns you mention. This being the case, the gun you are the most familier with, that you have shot the most, and have handled the most is the correct gun to carry when you could be faced with a serious bear situation.

Gun handling skills are second only to marksmanship, and under certain circumstances might be more important. How quickly can you bring the gun to bear? (no pun intended) Can you reload without taking your eyes off the target? Can you clear a stoppage without recourse to a gunsmith? If you have a bad primer, can you think through the problem and still save your life? When you are shooting for your life, you will switch to automatic, and in that mode you can only rely on what you know from muscle memory. When the action is over, purposely and definitely reload the gun and make sure it's on safe or could find yourself walking around with a hot weapon, that is low on ammo.

For those who don't do any shooting other than familiarization training, I would prefer to see you carry a semi-auto, because a good quality well maintained semi-auto won't short stroke when you are shooting for your life. Most often this advice is ignored due to the relative cost of the auto compared to the pump, and the idea that cracker shells can be used in the pump. I make a habit of not shooting cracker shells or rubber bullets in the same gun that I use with slugs, because of the risk of partial barrel blockages from these low pressure rounds.

A powerful rifle I believe is a superior killer to a slug gun. It might also be necessary to kill a bear beyond the useful range of the slug loaded shotgun. A Remington pump rifle is reliable, accurate, and compact when the barrel is short, and can be had in .35 Whelen. A .358" 250 gr bullet at 2500 fps is a good killer, and factory ammo is easy to get. It is also easy to make the switch from a pump shotgun to a pump rifle.

Which brings us to the point that if you decide on a rifle you should probably handload your ammo. The cheaper the ammo the more you can afford to shoot, and making your own means you can develop loads not commercially available. If you don't train with exactly the same ammo you carry in the field, you should at least train with ammo of similar power and a similar POI. Depending on custom ammo like the .45/70 Garretts is in my opinion a bad idea unless you can buy it in large quantities at a time. Even so, the cost is very high compared to the ammo you could load yourself with a 480 gr WFN hard cast bullet from M-T Chambers, and you won't shoot enough of the Garretts to keep your edge.

Bear researchers in my opinion should carry handguns, because the handgun is the only thing that will protect you if the drugged bear you are handling turns out not to be. A year or so ago, I was helping with a big brute, and went to pick him up by the snout which is a good handle. He groggily lifted his head, that was about 2' between the ears, and bunted me in the chest. He growled at us pretty much the entire time it took to get him out of D-20 and put him into the helicopter net. Getting an ATC can be a pain the ass, but if you can shoot a handgun and can get the employer to sign off, you should probably consider one.
 
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Thanks Boomer.

We sometimes stay in cabins owned by the local Hunters and Trappers associations, if they are available. But we also stay in tents alot - I opened the door of a thin nylon tent in Admiralty Inlet this past summer and a young male bear (the worst ones generally) was about 10 feet away. Scary stuff - at that camp it got to the point where I had to sleep with all my clothes on, so I could bound out three or four times a night when bears were coming (24 hour observers, work in shifts).

I do have a fair ammount of experience with a number of different firearms, both shotguns and rifles, everything from rimfire 17s and 22s to a .458 Win Mag owned by an Inuk friend. I have used the .458 to scare away a bear - but it is a single-shot Ruger No. 1 (his narwhal gun), and a single shot is obviously a poor choice for a defence weapon! I've also scared them off with a 22-250, but I'd obviously like to have something bigger in my hands! :)

I had looked into the .35 Whelan (ballistics, performance, etc.) but didn't realize I could get it in a Remmy pump, so that sounds like a good option. I have most experience with a bolt-action (in a rifle, used pump shotguns LOTS) so was thinking a bolt.

Even if (when?) I do buy a rifle for bear protection, it will be "my" gun, and we'll still carry pump 12's in camp, as that is what the others will be most familar with. We also always have a bunch of Inuks with us, loaded for bear, haha, and if someone has to shoot a bear it will hopefully be one of them (I quickly handed the shotgun to the local Wildlife Officer last summer when we had a problem - no paperwork for me then, lol, although in the end we were able to drive that one away without having to kill it).

I'm not a fan of cracker shells or rubber bullets either, and our instructor actually teaches us not to use them. He says that if a bear is close enough to scare away, it's close enough to shoot to kill. I've spoken with a number of polar bear biologists on the subject, and they tell me the same thing. If there's any concern, put the bear down. Even the HTOs are now saying the same thing, because of all the problem bears. They used to frown upon defence kills, especially those made by Kudloona researchers, because they come off the quota, but they are now telling us to "shoot first, ask questions later".

I always take extra slugs and a box of bird shot into a camp with me, and have everybody there use the pump 12 a few times to re-familiarize themselves with it.

I've asked about a handgun permit and was basically told to not bother. One of our scientists has a carry permit, but I think it was grandfathered or something? He is the only one allowed to carry. I know the GN polar bear bio carries a .44 when she is doing bear work, she has some sort of classification as a wildlife controll agent, or something like that. I was told that the Firearms centre responsible for MB won't give out a handgun carry permit, but the one in Ontario has been providing them for folks who work in southern Hudson Bay.

Thanks again Boomer, any additional advice you can provide would be greatly appreciated. It's obvious that you have a lot of expereince with, and knowledge of, polar bears.
 
Icehunter said:
Thanks Boomer.

I've asked about a handgun permit and was basically told to not bother. One of our scientists has a carry permit, but I think it was grandfathered or something? He is the only one allowed to carry. I know the GN polar bear bio carries a .44 when she is doing bear work, she has some sort of classification as a wildlife controll agent, or something like that. I was told that the Firearms centre responsible for MB won't give out a handgun carry permit, but the one in Ontario has been providing them for folks who work in southern Hudson Bay.
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It seems the CPFO for Manitoba-Nunavut getting more difficult about handing ATC's out, but a few of us here have them, but its up to you if you think its worth the effort.

I don't think that cracker shells or rubber bullets are necessarily a bad idea, I just think it's a bad idea to use them in a gun that might have to be used with full powered ammo due to the danger of partial barrel blockages. They give the bear a chance, but if its been driven away from your camp a couple of times and is bent on returning, plan "B" comes into effect. Ya gotta love them ones that hang out a couple of hundred yards off and slowly spiral in during the last hour of daylight. I really dislike close up polar bear encounters in the dark.
 
2 different plates! But I was being sarcastic. Let me know if you ever want to host a Vancouver film crew and have a good idea for a doc.
 
There seems to be lots of film crews that come here for polar bears. We've had them here from GB, Australia, Japan, Germany, etc. Pounder is the guy to talk to, for polar bear security. I do some work for him intermittently, but he's the one who specializes in gigs over extended periods of time.
 
"know, you want to shoot a cracker shell at it at 50 yards, and if that doesn't work, then your next shell in the magazine is a rubber slug, and then you'll have slugs...

Forget it. You don't know what is going to happen with those first rounds. Are you going to panic and short stroke? Are you going to have a jam? Something not work properly after the first shot? Now you have a useless gun and a pissed off bear.

Load your firearm with Brenneke 2 3/4" slugs for bear defense. If you have a second person with a gun, they can use the flares, etc. Buckshot isn't a good option for bear defense compared form a slug."

+ 1...you beat me to it.
 
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