Discussion of Value for Dollar of HK products.

beltfed said:
The SR-15 is no where near good value for money either.
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Never said it was.

Although, the SR-15 E3 IWS Upper being $1699 from One Shot is something I highly recommend, even for the dollar you are paying. Compared to the LMT MRP upper from Questar for $1757, I know which I would buy every time.

And yes, I own both, shoot both, like both.
 
I have to agree on those KAC uppers - that's an amazing price, even I'm tempted, and I'm a cheap b*stard. The problem with first class gear tends to be that once you've got it, anything else is disappointing.
 
beltfed said:
:confused:OK, I guess I took your statement to say that HK is overpriced where the KAC isn't (which of course, it is...along with most everything that comes into Canada)
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All that sentence said was that I would take the SR-15 over the MR223. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Mr 223

There has been a lot of really valid points made on this topic but who buys an AR and does nothing to it????.....Not many I'm guessing.
That being said you can buy a $1500.-$1700 rifle and easily spend another $1500. or more depending on parts, on it to get to the point the MR223 is out of the box. I personally have spent close to $4500. on mine not including optics. As far as parts availibility-everything breaks at some point but I have never spent a penny on a repair to any of the dozen or so H&K's I've owned. Maybe I've been lucky but IMHO, H&K's are worth the price even as overinflated as they are in Canada.
 
i've never had the opportunity to finger bang an mr223, however having recruited hazelMK into the CF myself, i know he's had years of trigger time behind the C8 platform. So using that as a benchmark, it would be ideal if someone could compare the mr223 against the c8/7. that would help him make his decision.
 
nza said:
i've never had the opportunity to finger bang an mr223, however having recruited hazelMK into the CF myself, i know he's had years of trigger time behind the C8 platform. So using that as a benchmark, it would be ideal if someone could compare the mr223 against the c8/7. that would help him make his decision.
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Well HazeMK is deciding between 2 rifles that really are setup for 2 completely different purposes.... The C8 depending on the version is much lighter and most importantly is a DI gun, where as the HK is a piston gun.... If he wants something closer to the C8 but not the same then just go buy KAC upper and build a good lower for her...OST has them..

HK MR223

(Heavy Tiger Tank Class) for carbines

Durability
Longer Life
HK barrel
fit & finish(cosmetic so who cares)
HK very smooth compared to most AR I have had trigger time behind.
But stock and pistol grip are welcome new additions.

Downsides

Weight
Adding things to this beast, will make you think twice...I would hope..:D

C8 Colt Canada (light tank or Sherman) Depends on the barrel profile.
As for the C8 well you should know that gun well enough by now to think of the pros and cons of that configuration.

Really i would just lay out your intended purpose and what you want it to do is the most important things to think off.. For an all round AR to do it all i would buy the HKMR223, but that depends on what you really want.
 
Rich LPS said:
Claven2,

Whatever, we're talking about SF and Tactical / SWAT units. Marine Snipers are not SF, neither is the masses of the Canadian Forces.
The general issue pistol of the Seals is the Sig P226 and now the HK 45 compact, do they have other weapons in inventory? Yes, but their main guns are P226.
The fact of the matter is that the dominant weapons in use by World Wide SF and Tactical units are the Sig, Glock and HK. Will you find excepitons, yes but the fact remains that these are the dominant weapons.
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Well, if we're going to apply that logic, then HK has no business being in this list, regardless of your fanboydom.

Here's your list:

GSG-9 Glock
GIGN Glock
JTF-2 Sig
SAS (UK) Sig
Seals Sig + HK
5th SFG Glock
KSK HK
Sek Sig + Glock
Belgian Glock
Greek Glock
Cobra Glock
Now the Swiss, Glock + Sig

Looks like only the SEALS and KSK are HK men. As you yourself said, the SEAL teams use SIG. They might have some HK (and S&W, Glock, Colt, etc.) in their inventory but that doesn't count.

Who are the KSK again??? All kidding aside, they only use the HK because they have a deal with HK to equip their military with small arms as part of the package deal to buy the G36 platform. Not because the HK pistol is better than Glock or SIG.
 
HK is heavy and overpriced for what your getting, a 16" HBAR AR15 with a short rail and heavy piston system and heavy barrel. The HK416 was designed for the 10" barrel shooting suppressed full auto. When i shot the MR223 i thought it was heavy and bulky, mostly due to the weight in the barrel. I mean the dry weight is somewhere around 8-9 pounds isnt it?

If you want a sweet shooting rifle I'd get an SR-15 and spend the rest on accessories. The SR-15 gives you much more bang for your buck if you want a high end rifle than the HK.
 
nza said:
i've never had the opportunity to finger bang an mr223, however having recruited hazelMK into the CF myself, i know he's had years of trigger time behind the C8 platform. So using that as a benchmark, it would be ideal if someone could compare the mr223 against the c8/7. that would help him make his decision.
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I orginally bought my MR223 to be used as a shorter DM carbine of some sort-I was going to use it to shoot high volume of accurate semi-automatic fire at a stationary position - like the new ORA DMR match and the old style 1-12 SR match.

No, I did not buy it to shoot it like a M4 or C8. If you want a C8, buy a C8 clone. For that, I run Noveske N4 and CMT M4.

The MR223 is not marketed as a M4 type rifle in the civie world. It is marketed as a target rifle - therefore you should think of using it as such. Comparing it to SR15 is moot - they are rifles for difference purposes. Think of it as SL8 to G36. No one ever thinks of comparing SL8 to C8/M4.
 
I am loving the whole its HK so the durabilty is built right in line of reasoning.

What has come out of the limited fielding of the M27?

First the program is going ahead becuase the guys in charge are pushing it and the troops for the most part like them.
Second bolt and locking lug wear is drastically greater than the DI ARs in use and excessive head space may be/is the limiting factor in barrel and bolt life. It will be interesting to see if HK comes up with a fix.
 
If you are over 6 feet tall and upwards of 205 pounds the MR223 is made for you, because you will enjoy all the benefits of it and be able to run and gun it fine.. Considering most people on here probably would find a typical AR too heavy if they ever had to run around with it makes most of these guns already to heavy. Really just work out more and get stronger, the gear is actually getting lighter but not meeting the rate of Canadian gun owners getting fatter...lol. The gun is a beast, if you run just a T-1 Aimpoint and mini scout flash light it is perfect, but then you are not benefiting on the barrel length by having no magnification. I have mine setup with a S&B 1-4 short dot, extended rail, Magpul angle for grip, LAV sling, and back up MBUS with scout light. That is as heavy as I would take it, and i certainly don't recommend that setup for everyone on that rifle.

That being said the MR308 seems to be on par with weight, not considering a full ammo load, which is a mute point anyway....I think I'm going to weigh these bad boys tonight to get some firm numbers....

If i was looking for an AR that is similar to an C7/8 series rifle, then i would be looking at the KAC uppers at OST real hard and then getting ATRS lower...
 
I believe hazelMK is in wainhole right now on tasking at the trg centre. Is there anybody/dealer near there or in that general flightpath he could visit who was one he can finger bang. he's a small guy.
 
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