Distance shooters. What power optics?
- Thread starter stralia
- Start date
ultimate_monkey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- victoria BC
Quality over power !! I shoot Schmidt and bender 5-25 . And that power combined with the quality of glass is more then enough for a mile and beyond . A good 15x is more then enough power
ultimate_monkey
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- victoria BC
Sorry yes you guys are right about more is better for f class . I'm just assuming the op is new to distance and looking to bang steel or rocks at 1000+ . Fclass if that's the ops interest is a whole other story
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
+1 on the comment about the need for quality. You don't _need_ to go to the level of Nightforce, March, Schmidt and Bender etc (though if you can afford it, oh my gosh, scopes of that level really are wonderful!). However, a deep-discount scope that includes high magnification as part of its spec package is likely to leave you disappointed.
With the various types of long range scoped shooting I have done, I've always found "more is better" (having said that, the most I've ever looked through has been 42X; and the kinds of shooting I've done have all involved very steady support of the rifle in a prone position).
I've shot at 1000 yards with a 15X scope (a Weaver KT-15, which 20 years ago sold for $239 and was "discovered" to be a bit of a price/performance gem). The sight picture looked _small_, and it sure felt like more magnification would help; however having said that, I shot an absolutely superb score with that, so it couldn't really have been holding me back too much. I think a lot of our perceptions are like that; our preferences are probably stronger than our needs.
I've shot my smallbore rifle at 20 yards using a Leupold 36X benchrest scope, off my elbows prone with a sling. I did *not* find the 36X to be too much, in fact I really liked it (my only complaint was that the super fine crosshair and incredibly tiny dot, which is a typical BR reticle, was *very* difficult to see on the mostly-black smallbore target; a much coarser reticle would have been superior).
I've shot F-Class using a 6.5-20X variable and later an 8.5-25X variable. In both cases, the only time the scope is set to any power other than max, might be during my setup period when I'm finding the target, setting up my bipod, etc. If and when I ever buy another scope for F-Class, its magnification will be at least in the 30s and more likely in the 40s.
A proper tactical scope will use a lower magnification than a pure F-Class competition scope. And nowadays, it is possible to get high quality variable magnification scopes with an adjustment range of 5 times (the ratio of the highest to the lowest magnification); that is really helpful.
If you want to shoot at long distance, one of the things to keep in mind as you plan your setup and select your scope is to make sure you have enough elevation adjustment range available to you. Generally speaking, the higher the scope magnification, the less adjustment range is available. Keep an eye on this, some otherwise-wonderful scopes are severely hampered by this (for example, the Nightforce BR series have quite a small adjustment range).
With the various types of long range scoped shooting I have done, I've always found "more is better" (having said that, the most I've ever looked through has been 42X; and the kinds of shooting I've done have all involved very steady support of the rifle in a prone position).
I've shot at 1000 yards with a 15X scope (a Weaver KT-15, which 20 years ago sold for $239 and was "discovered" to be a bit of a price/performance gem). The sight picture looked _small_, and it sure felt like more magnification would help; however having said that, I shot an absolutely superb score with that, so it couldn't really have been holding me back too much. I think a lot of our perceptions are like that; our preferences are probably stronger than our needs.
I've shot my smallbore rifle at 20 yards using a Leupold 36X benchrest scope, off my elbows prone with a sling. I did *not* find the 36X to be too much, in fact I really liked it (my only complaint was that the super fine crosshair and incredibly tiny dot, which is a typical BR reticle, was *very* difficult to see on the mostly-black smallbore target; a much coarser reticle would have been superior).
I've shot F-Class using a 6.5-20X variable and later an 8.5-25X variable. In both cases, the only time the scope is set to any power other than max, might be during my setup period when I'm finding the target, setting up my bipod, etc. If and when I ever buy another scope for F-Class, its magnification will be at least in the 30s and more likely in the 40s.
A proper tactical scope will use a lower magnification than a pure F-Class competition scope. And nowadays, it is possible to get high quality variable magnification scopes with an adjustment range of 5 times (the ratio of the highest to the lowest magnification); that is really helpful.
If you want to shoot at long distance, one of the things to keep in mind as you plan your setup and select your scope is to make sure you have enough elevation adjustment range available to you. Generally speaking, the higher the scope magnification, the less adjustment range is available. Keep an eye on this, some otherwise-wonderful scopes are severely hampered by this (for example, the Nightforce BR series have quite a small adjustment range).
- Location
- lloydminster
I'm using a busnell tactical elite with 3.5-21x. Shooting at an 12in gong at 850 yd I had ot turned to 8x which was enough to see the target well. At 1250 a 24 in gong I did crank it to 15 and I may not have needed it but you will see a target that size no problem. Buddy had a vortex pst and it was just a clean looking.
Anything more than 20x suffers from diminishing returns IMHO. You'll get too much mirage. Furthest I've shot is 900m so far with a Schmidt and bender pmII 3x15, and the scope is good to much farther. My .308 on the otherhand not so much.
were this true the majors would not be making the big power scopes. they work and work well if its what you need. 12-42, is a very nice long range scope most 22 br is shot above 30 power at 50 yards no less. some competitive 10M air rifle comps are shot at minimum 25 power. lets face it, the higher the mag the easier it is to see the target, unless mirage appears, which is not always the case.
- Location
- West Quebec
tagged
- Location
- calgary alberta
There is a trade off between magnification and elevation. You need enough magnification to easily see the target, but just as importantly the optic needs to have enough elevation in it to allow for trajectory compensation. Inclined rails will help to a degree but will not solve everything.
The 12x42 NF is a great scope but only has a total of 45 MOA of elevation, so if mounted on a plus 20 MOA rail that leaves you with a total usable elevation of 42.5 MOA, more or less. You should be able to get 1000 yards with it depending on caliber, bullet and bullets B.C. AND still zero at 100 yards.
For the more extreme LR shooting we do most of us here at the shop run the 8x32 version which has 65 MOA built in, that on a plus 40 MOA rail gives us 72.5 MOA total elevation which allows to get well beyond the 1000 yards.
Also more magnification reduces field of view and light transmission, it also makes mirage more noticeable, which can be worked in your favor for doping the wind better.
Selecting the right optic for LR shooting is NOT as simple as just buying the most magnification you can find.
Having more "can" be a benefit but also has some serious downsides that need to be considered.
The 12x42 NF is a great scope but only has a total of 45 MOA of elevation, so if mounted on a plus 20 MOA rail that leaves you with a total usable elevation of 42.5 MOA, more or less. You should be able to get 1000 yards with it depending on caliber, bullet and bullets B.C. AND still zero at 100 yards.
For the more extreme LR shooting we do most of us here at the shop run the 8x32 version which has 65 MOA built in, that on a plus 40 MOA rail gives us 72.5 MOA total elevation which allows to get well beyond the 1000 yards.
Also more magnification reduces field of view and light transmission, it also makes mirage more noticeable, which can be worked in your favor for doping the wind better.
Selecting the right optic for LR shooting is NOT as simple as just buying the most magnification you can find.
Having more "can" be a benefit but also has some serious downsides that need to be considered.
12x42 here for FClass and it is usually cranked all the way up unless I'm trying to find my target or a boil has smudged out the rings. I've used as little power as 4x14 and hit a 1000y vbull. I'm not saying it's the best tool for the job, but I was able to play with it.
Couple of additional things to consider from my experience (I'm no optics expert so take everything with reasonable skepticism):
a) Different scopes perform differently at through their magnification range. One scope may have more magnification listed on its turret, but when its cranked up it appears darker or less clear. In such a case are you better with more magnification or more useable magnification?
b) There doesn't appear to be a universal standard for magnification. My eye has seen one scope's x42 to present a different picture than another scope's x42.
Like I said, I could be wrong or it could just be my eyes.
Couple of additional things to consider from my experience (I'm no optics expert so take everything with reasonable skepticism):
a) Different scopes perform differently at through their magnification range. One scope may have more magnification listed on its turret, but when its cranked up it appears darker or less clear. In such a case are you better with more magnification or more useable magnification?
b) There doesn't appear to be a universal standard for magnification. My eye has seen one scope's x42 to present a different picture than another scope's x42.
Like I said, I could be wrong or it could just be my eyes.
You buy cheap, you buy twice is my saying. The higher the magnification, the more magnification you have when you back down for mirage. I have a March 8-80 X 56. When mirage is bad, I dial it up to maximum, and begin to back off until it disappears, usually it is around 45 x. . If your scope is a 12-42, you may back it down to 20x or 30x before it straightens out. This has been my experience. Good optics also have the ability to see better through mirage
Dialing back to see through mirage is unescapable......but if dialing back a 25 power scope to 15 power then you would be dialing back a 42 power to 30 power to obtain the same sight picture....... A 50x would be dialed back to 38x or 40x and so on.
The point is that the more magnification you have means you have more usable magnification when conditions go to sh1t.
Whenever I am asked this question I say that if your goal is precision work then buy the most quality magnification you can afford. On my FTR I run NF BR 12-42x56 and on my F/Open I have a S+B 12-50 with 1/8th MOA. If your goal is to make hits then magnification may not be the most important consideration and many like a 5-25 or 8-32 configuration - again in a quality package - though I personally still like the option of more magnification and so on my Coyote I have S+B 12-50 with 1/4 MOA. Military scope purchases are often in the lower magnification range for reasons best known to the military and while they may work excellently on man-sized targets at military engagement yardages I don't think that they are the best scopes for competition work at KD distances. Whatever you do please avoid cheap ebay specials that promises 50 x magification etc as you will be disappointed.
