Dlask m4 barrels

Is it possible that these "Bad Dlask" barrels from the past could have been made by someone else at Dlask?

This reminds me of the time I wanted to get my new cars windows tinted from the same Japanese guy who I used in the past because of his great skill. To my surprise when I showed up to get the car some young guy was finishing it off... I looked over the work he did and to my horror there was hair and air bubbles all over the place. I complained about it and told the owner (Japanese guy) that I thought he was doing it. I got it redone by him and the job was perfect (I think that young guy lost his job after too). :D
 
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Lazerus2000 said:
dlask - they prey on the new people and the uninformed....

Hmmmmmm?
Pretty broad statement there HFP75 ...

I've been shooting for over 40 years, so I don't think anyone can call me a "newbie". We could could maybe have some fun debating about whether or not I am "uninformed"?
HOWEVER,
unlike many who chipped in with their comments on this thread, I've actually owned and shot a Dlask 14.5" AR-15 barrel, and a Dlask Mini Moose shorty.
SO,
I think I just have to respond to this thread.

It is interesting reading all this Dlask bashing. It seems there are a lot of people on CGN, with various degrees of credibility, willing to jump in and criticise the very very VERY few folks who are actually ambitious [ = STUPID?] enough to build gun stuff here in Canada, and attempt to make a business and a profit doing so. This goes for the recent Rooster bashing as well.

I was a licensed gunsmith and serious IPSC competitor back in the 80's and 90's. Back then, in the dark ages, before most of you Dlask bashers were even born, there were only a very few smiths who pioneered "practical shooting" here in Canuckland. Joe was one of those pioneers. On the West Coast of Canada, back in the beginning, when IPSC in Canada was just getting started, me and Rod P did the most of the IPSC and military stuff, and Murray C did the PPC/Police stuff. Gunnar was isolated way up in the land of Frozen Tundra. When it came to Canadian practical shooting, on the West Coast, that was just about it folks.

Joe showed up, fresh off the boat, and started working for Rod. He quickly proved that he was then [ and still is] an absolutely fantastic machinest. He was doing better machining than any of us. However, Rod, Murray, Gunnar and I were all serious "practical" competitors as well as gun butchers, so perhaps our philosophy was a bit different. Joe is first and foremost a machinest, and often, an artist in metal. I've always found any work that Joe did personally first class. I've known Joe for over twenty years, and I'd say he has forgotten more about gunsmithing than most of his detractors will ever know. In all that time, he has always treated me better than fair.

If you have problems with his stuff, I suggest you talk to Joe personally ...
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Larry, interesting points. My view is quite simple...if it comes out of your shop, it is you work...Period! It matters not whether one of your minions did the work or not. Secondly, this is not bashing, go on Dlask's web site, the TC Carry gun pictured was mine, I spec'd it, Joe built it, it was a POS. The short Ruger 10/22 was mine...excellent gun but for the amount I spent a trigger job was not done. There was a Kitty Kat on the site that belonged to a friend of mine, he spend hundreds at Dlask trying to get it to work, things like adjustable gas, cut springs and opened gas holes only fecked up things more. My shop finally offered to fix the gun for my friend for free because we got tired of seeing him only run 2 rounds at a time and we had ideas on how to make it right...Wrenchgod fixed it...on video no less. How about we get into a respected board member's AR15(Admin actually) with the upper receiver extension that was broken on a rebarrel and he was not informed. As for work during the 80s, I have seen much of the "LunchBox" work done on ARs and M14 type rifles, some good, many poor. Lets just say that time moves on and a gifted machinist with proper tools who know what their limits are have begun putting out some very fine work...and they may not even have been born until the 70s. I work for one of them and we were introduced when he was asked to fix much of what Dlask fecked up...I've also seen him stand behind and pay for subcontract blunders...why, because it came out of our shop. If anyone has any more questions I'll answer them on PM from this point on.
 
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Just curious. Is there anyone has has put a pistol AR upper on their Rifle lower? I figure that would be the easiest way to get an SBR. I wonder this, to ask the other question of, "What is the difference between an AR pistol with a short barrel and an AR rifle and a short barrel in the US??? I was going to try this myself.
 
I think you'll find in the US that any AR with a barrel under 16" has a 'pistol' buttstock, which is essentially a foam pad around the buffer tube. Otherwise, it's considered an SBR, and you need the whole ClassIII and tax stamps etc...

Obviously, in Canada, it doesn't matter what length the barrel is on an AR, as it's restricted by name. 7.5" - 20"... it's all the same.
 
Wellll... since the buttstock/buffer tube is attached to the lower.... I would say yes.

However, internally they would be identical to a 'rifle' lower.

Out of curiousity, are you wondering about owning a Pistol AR in the States? Or in Canada? Because in Canada, an AR is an AR... no 'pistol' AR's as far as the law goes.

If you want the US official version, AR15.com is your best friend!
 
Lazerus2000 said:
dlask - they prey on the new people and the uninformed....

Hmmmmmm?
Pretty broad statement there HFP75 ...

I've been shooting for over 40 years, so I don't think anyone can call me a "newbie". We could could maybe have some fun debating about whether or not I am "uninformed"?
HOWEVER,
unlike many who chipped in with their comments on this thread, I've actually owned and shot a Dlask 14.5" AR-15 barrel, and a Dlask Mini Moose shorty.
SO,
I think I just have to respond to this thread.

It is interesting reading all this Dlask bashing. It seems there are a lot of people on CGN, with various degrees of credibility, willing to jump in and criticise the very very VERY few folks who are actually ambitious [ = STUPID?] enough to build gun stuff here in Canada, and attempt to make a business and a profit doing so. This goes for the recent Rooster bashing as well.

I was a licensed gunsmith and serious IPSC competitor back in the 80's and 90's. Back then, in the dark ages, before most of you Dlask bashers were even born, there were only a very few smiths who pioneered "practical shooting" here in Canuckland. Joe was one of those pioneers. On the West Coast of Canada, back in the beginning, when IPSC in Canada was just getting started, me and Rod P did the most of the IPSC and military stuff, and Murray C did the PPC/Police stuff. Gunnar was isolated way up in the land of Frozen Tundra. When it came to Canadian practical shooting, on the West Coast, that was just about it folks.

Joe showed up, fresh off the boat, and started working for Rod. He quickly proved that he was then [ and still is] an absolutely fantastic machinest. He was doing better machining than any of us. However, Rod, Murray, Gunnar and I were all serious "practical" competitors as well as gun butchers, so perhaps our philosophy was a bit different. Joe is first and foremost a machinest, and often, an artist in metal. I've always found any work that Joe did personally first class. I've known Joe for over twenty years, and I'd say he has forgotten more about gunsmithing than most of his detractors will ever know. In all that time, he has always treated me better than fair.

If you have problems with his stuff, I suggest you talk to Joe personally ...
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What are you saying, is the 14.5 barrels s**t or not???:confused: :rolleyes: I'm sure Joe thinks his stuff is the cat's meow, Gunn started this thread because he is trying to get opinions on Dlask’s products before he decides to buy. It doesn't matter how good “Joe's” CS is, if the product is s**t, it's s**t. Many here are saying it is s**t; in fact you are the fist to say otherwise. I'm glad that Joe "has always treated (you) better than fair" but I tend to dismiss it as grand standing after your tutorial on supporting the pioneers of Canadian gun smithing.:rolleyes: If a product has the Dlask name on it, it’s Joe’s responsibility to ensure it meets company standards before it ships. I couldn’t care less if he is an artist we shouldn't support something because it is "Made in Canada", "Made in Canada" should mean it is better.;) :)

I’ve never dealt with Dlask so I appreciate this kind of thread. I have dealt with Rooster and he too is an “artist”, and he took three months to ship me a part, after repeatedly telling me he shipped it. :rolleyes: Rooster treats his customers like crap; comparing Dlasks treatment to roosters doesn’t help your cause…
 
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Sparrow ...
you have had your experiences with Dlask, and I have had mine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ... but I respect an opinion much more if it is based on experience. I would say your opinion is valid and credible. But then, I'd also say that my opinion was also valid and credible.

What I DO disagree with is people with little or no experience jumping on the bandwagon to trash or bash people OR products.

AS in ... " Chinese AR 15's are no good" or "Chinese M-14s are no good" or "Dlask is no good".

All I am asking [ and you answered quite thoroughly ] is what experience do you have to base these opinions on? This is ALWAYS a valid question in ANY debate.

I'd just like to cut down on the UNWARRENTED criticism from the peanut gallery. In fact, how many of the people who are trashing Dlask's 14.5 barrels in this thread [ which after all was the topic of conversation ] can truthfully say that they have owned one? Shot one? Or even seen one??

I'd be willing to bet mr. HFP75 doesn't qualify?
 
Hey Lazerus I am interested in one thing though. How can a company demand a premium price for a product when their quality control appears to be hit or miss? I put my money on LMT because I wanted the best I could afford. There was a time I considered Dlask but I couldnt find anybody who gave it alot of favourable reviews. The fact that is Canadian doesnt seem to relevant. I bought my LMT from a Canadian supplier so either way I shopped local.

Maybe if the quality improved and prices were more in line there would be less detractors?
 
spi said:
Just as a note on the taper pin vs. straight pin issue:

Since it takes longer to fit a taper pin than it does a straight pin, it will not be done unless it is determined to be critical, even though it may be desirable.

Think about it this way: Sure there are simple and easy ways to drill and fit tapered pins, but try to standardize those methods - like using a masking tape stop - in a factory. Your parts will be out of spec from one batch to the next. Plus, as an arbitrary example, say it takes one minute to drill and fit a straight pin, and one and a half minutes to drill and fit a tapered pin, that is a 50% increase in your labor cost to produce that part. Added up across the manufacturing process, a 50% increase in costs in any area severly impacts the finished price of your product.

So what seems to be a reasonable thing to an individual craftsman to do, is not neccesarily desireable from a manufacturing standpoint.
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The taper pins index location very very accurately, and hold that location, locking themselves on the slight taper. May be overkill, but roll pins also will trap moisture inside the inner diameter in this application and rust out, plus the are in effect a spring so will allow the block to work (small) bit during recoil, loosening the fit. Also, taper pins can be drifted out and replaced. Esp. in aluminum, the roll pin is going to shear bits of material away, loosening fit and accuracy. In this case, the taper pin is best from the craftsmanship and production standpoint......
 
MPI said:
Rooster treats his customers like crap; comparing Dlasks treatment to roosters doesn’t help your cause…
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ROFL, at least he shipped you parts, I never even got a reply or response to e-mail or phone calls, I wouldn't by from him if he gave stuff away :mad:
 
The Dlask 14.5" HEAVY barrel Barrel I had [ and the Dlask Mini Moose ] both worked reliably and accurately.

I pulled the Dlask barrel off of my AR, sold it, and replaced it with a 14.5" M4 light contour barrel [ supposedly a Wilson ]. I did not like the roll pins [ but unless you are actually a professional Zombi eradicator who REALLY cares? ]. The only reason I changed barrels was because I went from a HVY barrel with full length rifle quad rail, to an M forgery with carbine handguards. I wanted the lightest simplest AR for my Zombi broom ... I already had enough heavy complicated ones..
 
Cocked&Locked said:
The taper pins index location very very accurately, and hold that location, locking themselves on the slight taper. May be overkill, but roll pins also will trap moisture inside the inner diameter in this application and rust out, plus the are in effect a spring so will allow the block to work (small) bit during recoil, loosening the fit. Also, taper pins can be drifted out and replaced. Esp. in aluminum, the roll pin is going to shear bits of material away, loosening fit and accuracy. In this case, the taper pin is best from the craftsmanship and production standpoint......
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Curious as to why you are quoting me and then reffering to roll pins? I was speaking only about straight pins versus tapered pins, and clearly if a company like Armalite (which probably has 100's of hours of production engineerning put into how it manufactures it's parts) uses a straight pin instead of a tapered one, then a tapered pin is clearly not the best solution from a production standpoint. From a craftsmanship point of view, it may well be, and I am not arguing that.
 
spi said:
Just as a note on the taper pin vs. straight pin issue:

Since it takes longer to fit a taper pin than it does a straight pin, it will not be done unless it is determined to be critical, even though it may be desirable.

Think about it this way: Sure there are simple and easy ways to drill and fit tapered pins, but try to standardize those methods - like using a masking tape stop - in a factory. Your parts will be out of spec from one batch to the next. Plus, as an arbitrary example, say it takes one minute to drill and fit a straight pin, and one and a half minutes to drill and fit a tapered pin, that is a 50% increase in your labor cost to produce that part. Added up across the manufacturing process, a 50% increase in costs in any area severly impacts the finished price of your product.

So what seems to be a reasonable thing to an individual craftsman to do, is not neccesarily desireable from a manufacturing standpoint.
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I don't think so I dont think Armalite or any other company in any manufacturing sector does non-CNC work when they dont need to. All it would take is a extra reaming cycle in the code and a extra tool change. One to ream the hole slightly smaller and one to taper ream it to the final size. The tooling cost themselfs wouldnt be much to set this up. Reamers are pretty cheap compared to alot of other tooling and its not like your paying someone to ream them in a production shop by hand costing you alot of money ether. :)

Dimitri
 
with a CNC setup taper reaming a hole wouldn't take any longer than a straight ream, if they even bothered to straight ream it. Chances are straight holes are simply drilled, especially if they are using roll pins in them. If they are using straight pins, then yeah, they might straight ream them from a smaller drill hole, in which case they could taper ream them instead.

oh and that upper Sparrow talks about is mine. I purchased the gun from another member, and good friend. He had the gun worked on by Joe, when I worked at the shop, and I remember this quite well. He wanted his post ban barrel threaded for a flash hider and Joe did the work. In the process, and because of not using proper tools, he broke the receiver extension on the upper. Never told the client (I thought he did). I then forgot about it, purchased the rifle years later and then it was discovered when I had a new barrel put on. Yup gotta love that. anyone want my upper??????
 
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spi said:
Curious as to why you are quoting me and then reffering to roll pins? I was speaking only about straight pins versus tapered pins, and clearly if a company like Armalite (which probably has 100's of hours of production engineerning put into how it manufactures it's parts) uses a straight pin instead of a tapered one, then a tapered pin is clearly not the best solution from a production standpoint. From a craftsmanship point of view, it may well be, and I am not arguing that.
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So you where, my bad. taper pins can be done in a production enviorment, and for this application would be better than any form of straight pin, The straight pin will require either a retaining compound or a press into the aluminum, neither a first choice but it works fine.....And as you point out its more economical as well from a production standpoint
 
Dimitri said:
I don't think so I dont think Armalite or any other company in any manufacturing sector does non-CNC work when they dont need to.
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Err, actually it's more like most companies don't do CNC work when they don't need to. Stampings, castings, and a jigged up drill press manned by a machine operator making $10/per hour is more cost effective than running CNC machine to drill and ream holes.

Dimitri said:
All it would take is a extra reaming cycle in the code and a extra tool change. One to ream the hole slightly smaller and one to taper ream it to the final size.
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Hmm. Not as simple as that my man. In theory, sure. But let's look at this in an actual factory setting:

You are proposing to use a taper pin as opposed to a straight pin in an application where it has been determined that a straight pin would be sufficient. Moreover, you propose doing this on a CNC machine.

Let's think about that from the shop floor and the bottom line.

Let's say that currently these holes drilled in castings for straight pins by 2 guys working on drill presses with jigs at an average of 30 seconds per hole, with go/no go jigs for QC.

You want to use a CNC machine for this instead.

You want to go from 3 operations - drilling hole, reaming hole, spec'ing hole - to 4 operations - drilling hole, reaming hole, tapering hole, spec'ing hole - on one of the most expensive machines in the factory, staffed by the highest paid operators. <---That is your first indication it is not a cost effective measure.

Dimitri said:
The tooling cost themselfs wouldnt be much to set this up. Reamers are pretty cheap compared to alot of other tooling and its not like your paying someone to ream them in a production shop by hand costing you alot of money ether. :)
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Hmm, but you do need to hire a guy who has the bare modicum of intelligence to take parts on and off the machine, notice when tools are dull or damaged, replace them, and touch them off well enough to be in spec. That is not cheap, and no, reamers are not cheap compared to the 2 drills that you would need to drill a perfectly acceptable hole for a straight pin. Morever, broken drills can be re-sharpened. Nicked or dull reamers need to be replaced. That makes them way more expensive in the long run.
 
I am almost done on this topic, I believe my point has been well articulated. Yesterday I asked a respected supplier what his AR15 barrels were made of...he contacted me a few minutes later and said, 4140 on 1/9" twist and 4150 on 1/7", made in the USA by a US Military rebuild facility both totally acceptable and the answer was straight. I dare anyone to ask Joe what his barrels are made of and more importantly WHERE they come from, if he is truthful the answers may surprise those interested in human rights issues, though they did solve the 1/14" twist blunder.
 
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