So to extrapolate on this statement, if one were to start or operate a business with high overhead costs it’s ok to treat employees unfairly?
Is that what you are saying?
Do I tip an outfitter if I don't use a guide?
- Thread starter jlovie
- Start date
So to extrapolate on this statement, if one were to start or operate a business with high overhead costs it’s ok to treat employees unfairly?
Is that what you are saying?
What do you mean by "treat employees unfairly"? Is not paying them more money because there is an industry wide expectation that they will also get tips unfairly treating them?
If you are hunting at a lodge that is providing you with the services of food, bedding etc, it is appropriate to tip the staff that attend to these things for you. A quick call to the outfitter should sort out what amount is in the norm. You certainly have the option not to tip, but the industry is small and word travels.
For those who don't believe in tipping... please let your outfitter know that before the next hunt you book.
For those who don't believe in tipping... please let your outfitter know that before the next hunt you book.
No, that is not what I am saying... what I am saying is that for most outfitters, the payroll is the largest cost to operating the business... they cannot cut back on services to the client or they won't have a business. So the upshot is, that everyone's salary is based more or less on a scale from minimum wage for dock-hands and housekeeping (plus food, lodging and expenses), to the higher salary of the guides, who in effect generate their own revenue (to varying degrees). BUT, the bottom line is that the business must stay profitable or everyone loses their job. Back to my original point, the margins of profitability are much tighter than most think they are.
I did work a minimum wage job when I was younger, yes. And I assure you in that job I worked harder than any wait staff possibly ever could. Where was my tip? And please, let's not act like wait staff in Canada are making $5/hour like their counterparts in the US. They are hardly underpaid for the job they do and if they take issue with the wage, then they should get a better job rather than a bottom-of-the-barrel one.
And no, I'm not a regular anywhere, partly for that reason. If I need to give you hard earned money out of my own pocket so that you do your job properly, or not in a disgustingly illegal manner, then perhaps your work ethic is the problem here and not my penny pinching. Unfortunately that mentality is the prevalent one and wait staff expect tips like entitled brats.
Do you really believe it's acceptable to provide sub-par service because someone didn't give a gratuity?
What an interesting addition to the conversation, I'm sure we will be talking about it for weeks to come.
I supply a service. My price is stated up front per hour or BFM. I give an honest days work to the best of my ability. Cost is stated at finish of job. The price is the price stated.
I don't need your stinking tip. I consider it an insult. I don't need to be treated like a beggar. Should I want more I'd charge more. Fair is fair. I don't gouge. The price is the price !!!!
I don't need your stinking tip. I consider it an insult. I don't need to be treated like a beggar. Should I want more I'd charge more. Fair is fair. I don't gouge. The price is the price !!!!
Sounds like you are the business owner... I quote jobs on contract and the price is the price, I don't need or expect to be tipped... but this is not the same as the guy who is doing the work "boots on the ground" and not getting a piece of the overall net profit. Not much different than a waitress at a restaurant.
freddyfour
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
It sounds like there is a desire for a new formula from both the clients and the guides. A set in fixed rate for a guide separate from the price the outfitter charges. Is that done anywhere in Canada? Of course I see the benefit if you receive bad service not having to shell out an extra sum.
I don't think tips should ever be set in stone... a tip is a way to show appreciation for good service to those that work hard for your comfort and enjoyment. If the service, effort and attitude are bad, I am 100% in favor of ZERO tip. However, when the service, effort, knowledge, and drive to make your experience the best it can be, are excellent or even "above and beyond," I think that a tip just shows appreciation to the hourly or daily fee worker. I for one, appreciate good service and tip accordingly.
I dont know about any guiding service that does that.
BUT - we went on a very nice Alaskan cruise and sightseeing trip last year.
The cruise was set up all gratuities paid in advance, all meals at stops during the motor coach tour etc were all paid, so no one was standing around with their hand out
The interesting thing about the fancy meals was the waiters always recommended the highest priced item on the menu - since they knew they were getting 15% of the total...
I think tipping is a very personal thing, and very uncommon in EU as previously mentioned.
BUT - we went on a very nice Alaskan cruise and sightseeing trip last year.
The cruise was set up all gratuities paid in advance, all meals at stops during the motor coach tour etc were all paid, so no one was standing around with their hand out
The interesting thing about the fancy meals was the waiters always recommended the highest priced item on the menu - since they knew they were getting 15% of the total...
I think tipping is a very personal thing, and very uncommon in EU as previously mentioned.
You can really tell who's been reliant on tip money and who hasn't in this thread...
Tipping is a bull#### system. Plain and simple. People should be paid a fair wage from the get go, not rely on the generosity of others just to be able to pay rent. But how do you get rid of such a system?
Gratuities charged up front isn't uncommon in the restaurant industry either, at least for larger groups. Many companies have policies in place where a group over X number of people automatically has a tip added to the bill - Which makes sense. Could you imagine being the waiter to deal with a table of 12 and then get stiffed on a tip? You'll still have to tip out the kitchen and bar staff at 3-5% of the bill total, so you just LOST $10-20 out of your own pocket! Add to that the expected 10-15% of the bill in the form of a tip, and one cheapskate can cut your daily expected earnings by $50+!
Tipping is a bull#### system. Plain and simple. People should be paid a fair wage from the get go, not rely on the generosity of others just to be able to pay rent. But how do you get rid of such a system?
Gratuities charged up front isn't uncommon in the restaurant industry either, at least for larger groups. Many companies have policies in place where a group over X number of people automatically has a tip added to the bill - Which makes sense. Could you imagine being the waiter to deal with a table of 12 and then get stiffed on a tip? You'll still have to tip out the kitchen and bar staff at 3-5% of the bill total, so you just LOST $10-20 out of your own pocket! Add to that the expected 10-15% of the bill in the form of a tip, and one cheapskate can cut your daily expected earnings by $50+!
Last edited:
I was referring only to the post that was quoted. It is very redundant. You don't add anything and instead just let me know that you read my post. Not needed at all, as I assume everyone reads my post because I have a huge ego.
If you need to rely on the goodwill of strangers to get by, you're in the wrong line of work for your needs and should do a serious revaluation of your life
I used to get a kick out of the guys who would grease the outfitter at the start of his hunt hoping for preferential treatment. Said outfitter never went to the bush and had no idea what was going on. These guys who are a station above lowly guides get a special rock pile stand where the wind can get you from all sides.
Most guides do it because they love it, and are very good at it. Show some respect and give the man a tip.
Most guides do it because they love it, and are very good at it. Show some respect and give the man a tip.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
If thats all you got from that post, then its very clear you didn’t comprehend it. Not surprising....
If tips were built into the price; even going to the extent of the outfitter putting the agreed upon amount in envelopes for the client to hand out personally it still wouldnt work. Someone would insist on tipping over and above the amount; someone else would expect the over and above amount and be butt hurt if he didn’t get it, and the rest would suspect that the outfitter just took it off their wages anyway.
I have no problem paying for an outfitters services, which should include adequately paid and skilled staff, decent equipment and an area worth hunting or fishing in. It’s a nice fantasy anyway.
I have no problem paying for an outfitters services, which should include adequately paid and skilled staff, decent equipment and an area worth hunting or fishing in. It’s a nice fantasy anyway.
it is historical and very interesting.
in europe some people will be felt like insulted to receive a tip as this is not a tradition and people are paid in consequences. try to tip in swizterland in a restuarant or hotel ... not a custom as well in france.
in africa we dealt mostly with european or american and i do think american were thinking by tipping huge money they got better services.
i do think in the tourism industry where i worked many years as an outfitter or a guide and even being a client tip as never been part of the service i offered and never waited for: but i alwyays tipped.
i ve seen caribou camps where a print was saying a 20% tip (from the trip already paid) was expected ... as a camp manager i was aked many times and always answered the same tip as you wish want or can do no feel any obligations but if you have any trouble with any of the staff let me know to fix.
tip is an option not an obligation.
jlovie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
What man are speaking of? I already said I would be tipping the guides.
