Does the 338/358 offer any practical advantage over 308?

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buckchaser

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As a fan of the lightweight compact rifles in the 308 short action family, I have a question that hopefully posters here can shed light on.

Does the 338 Federal (200 - 210 grain bullets) and/or the 358 Winchester (200 - 250 grain bullets) actually offer a significant upgrade in "actual field performance" over the 308 shooting premium 165 - 180 grain bullets?

Ballistics charts are one thing, but I'd like to hear from hunters who have seen the calibers in question perform in the field on larger game like elk, moose, bear, etc.

I have field experience with the 243, 7mm-08, and 308 - but have never used a 338 or 358. If indeed they have more "real world thump" at typical hunting ranges, I would be tempted to add one.
 
I shot a 2.5 year old bull moose with a .308, 165gr Interbond, at 290yds. No drama.

However, I like and use a 338 frequently...
 
buckchaser said:
I have field experience with the 243, 7mm-08, and 308 - but have never used a 338 or 358. If indeed they have more "real world thump" at typical hunting ranges, I would be tempted to add one.
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I have a 7/08, 308 and 358Win. With Partitions and the newer TSX/TTSX there's less of a real world practical difference between them.

If you're only shooting deer there'd be no difference at all and moose really aren't all that hard to kill so it's more of a matter of want than need to go to a 338 or 358.
 
I have them all... .243/.260/7-08/.308/.338F/.358W... and had a .375-08... they each land somewhere on a sliding x-y scale. Each one is potential "the best of the bunch" for a given task... obviously the larger end for larger game and the smaller end for smaller game. I love them all... and have them in a number of platforms...
 
I've got a 358 pretty much for the cool factor,...and it is different. The 308 is probly one of the most well rounded calibers ever made,...short action , lots of hitting power for medium to large game, etc.
I don't own a 308,..not sure why,..maybe because they are too common and boring,......BUT I LOVE the .358win,...I have been sort of infatuated with it ever since I discovered a few years ago. I could go on and on about it all day. It realy thumps Whitetails and Black bears.
 
I haven't noticed an appreciable difference in performance on game between 308 and 358 yet (limited experience, only taken a 350 pound black bear with the 358).
I have however noticed a significant difference stepping up to the 350RM from 308 ;)
If you want to see a good step up from your 308 but want to stay with short actions and light & portable rifles, get yourself set up for reloading and get a nice 350RM
 
Ballistics charts are indeed one thing to pay attention to with your research IMO.

The comparison depends on the range you expect your quarry to be shot from. Don't sell short the info you can glean from comparing ballistics.

Doing the job is what most consider, the ability to do the job, "better" is I suspect what you're looking for, and as it sounds like you've done your research, you already know the answer. :)
 
the .338 federal looks much better for energy and velocity then the other two, if the only purpose for the rifle was for walking in the bush in bear country, I'd take the .358 with blunt nose ammo.

The .308 is much more common, you'll find ammo everywhere, and sometimes cheaper surplus, but personally I'd prefer the .338 federal if I was in the market.
 
cody c said:
... if the only purpose for the rifle was for walking in the bush in bear country, I'd take the .358 with blunt nose ammo.
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A 250 grain cup & core SP out of the .358, becomes a blunt nose pretty quick on impact... and the would be my choice as a carry gun if one was concerned with self-preservation.
 
I've been considering the same thing. 338F or 358W for a short barreled bush rifle with some legs. I'm leaning more towards the 338 personally but I do miss my carbine 30/06s
 
I like bullets with a good SD in case you have to take a shot that has less than perfect presentation. That is where the 338 Federal falls on it's face. Not because 338 bullets are no good but rather because in order to get the velocity numbers that the designers wanted they decided to use the 185/200/210gr bullets. The 210 gives you a decent SD and would be the bullet that I would likely use if I was a 338 Federal guy, but in the end you're using a bullet comparable to a 180gr 30 caliber at essentially the same velocity. And if you step down to the more common 185gr then your SD goes right out the window just to squeeze out enough velocity to barely match a 30-06.

Shoehorning a heavy bullet into the 308 Winchester case, whether you achieve that weight by an increase in diameter or length, is false economy. Ever see someone hauling firewood or square bales with a Ford Ranger? Very similar premise. You're asking an awful lot of a platform that really isn't optimum for the task at hand.
 
BigUglyMan said:
Shoehorning a heavy bullet into the 308 Winchester case, whether you achieve that weight by an increase in diameter or length, is false economy. Ever see someone hauling firewood or square bales with a Ford Ranger? Very similar premise. You're asking an awful lot of a platform that really isn't optimum for the task at hand.
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Good analogy... and I can't fault your reasoning... but they still make and sell Rangers... they are right for some folks for some situations... maybe not hauling firewood (bison) or hay bales (grizzly)... but if you just haul a jet ski (deer) or an aluminum boat (black bear), then the Ranger (.338F/.358W) might be just right...

Like Jackie Chan said in "Shanghai Noon;"

Chon Wang:
"This is the West, not the East. The sun may rise where we come from... but here is where it sets."

You kinda gotta reverse that, to get my point...
 
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I'm not really a fan of the 308 as a hunting cartridge, solely because of the kind of hunting I grew up with.......sheep, goats and caribou in the high open country. I have however smashed a few animals with a 358 before going to the 350 RM and I can tell you that the 358 bullet does seem to kill with more authority than an equivalent hit with a 30 cal bullet. It starts out displacing more tissue and liquid and almost always gives you an exit hole. I am not an authority by any means but I have a friend of a friend who has taken dozens of animals with the 358 and right out to 300 mtrs and swears it kills way better than a 308 and always leaves 2 holes. This guy is a good friend and hunting buddy of Ted's, so when Ted tells me these stories, I know them to be true.
There is something undeniable in the killing effect of 35 cal bullets on game and you won't find it in any chart or table, right from the 35 Rem in days of old up to the 358 NM, those who use them as I have with the 350 RM and one of my old hunting buddies did with the Whelen, will tell you there is something magic about 35 cal bullets and how they kill game. You sure don't hear any horror stories about tracking game for days or losing game when they got a 35 cal hole in them.
Also if a situation comes down to preserving my acute good looks from some critter who would like to rearrange those outstanding features, I'd much rather be standing behind a 35 cal 225-250 gn bullet than a 30 cal 165-180 gn bullet. I just seem to like a larger security blanket, when things get "up close and personal" and it's MY personal on the line.
So if you want to boil it down to bare bones, there is absolutely nothing that a 308 will do inside 300 mtrs that a 358 won't do as well or better, and in my opinion always better. I cannot speak to the 338 Fed as I have never used one, but my experience with the 338 WM would preclude me from ever using one so.................
 
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You don't think 300 yards is pushing it for a 35 Winchester with a 250 gr bullet? I only ask because I lack the first hand experience. I'm looking for something between a 25/06 and 458wm to use for moose and bear that's as effective in thick bush as it is in clear cuts out to 300 yards without going for a 30 cal magnum. My choices are a 338 federal or 358 Winchester or a 9.3x57.
 
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