Dog training collar recomendations please
- Thread starter Dr.Chris
- Start date
- Location
- Montreal, Quebec
promac said:
You ever train a gun dog? I don't think so. I spend more time training my dog than most people spend training their kids. A shock collar is not used to train a dog whatsoever. It is used as an extra long leash to correct a dog when he refuses to follow a command he has already learned. Ever try controling your dog with a 300 foot rope leash in the bush? The object is negative reinforcement, not to defibralate the dog and send him into cardiac arrest.
I would much rather my dog experiance slight discomfort rather than the pain and suffering of being shot for running into the line of fire.
Hunting with a gun dog is not quite the same as parading your Yorkie in the park on a Sunday afternoon.
Griffoneur said:
That doesn't say alot these days!
Griffoneur said:
Extra long leash shouldn't be necessary if you train your dog with the same commands in close range. Small steps first. Especially if the dog is young - and thats what were talking about here. I'm just saying you should use the gizmo as a last resort. Whatever works for you though.
ANYWAY, LETS GET BACK ON TOPIC!
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Griffoneur said:
OK it's not the same thing but last night my dog was sitting on the passenger side floor of my truck. When I got out he approached and his paw was hanging out of the truck. I gently moved his paw back inside so the door would not close on it, the paw stayed there for a half second then slid into the doorway again.
So I GENTLY closed the door and squeezed his paw in it a little bit. He let out a tiny yelp, and pulled his paw in. I opened the door to make sure he was OK (which he was... this was VERY gentle) and his paws were WELL clear of the door.
A slight discomfort when appropriate makes a great training experience.
Chris
As a professional dog trainer (who owns 8 former shelter dogs) I have to say more dogs have been sent to the shelters with behavioral problems, and eventually put to sleep by the electronic collar fad then any other fad training device that has come out...second to the misuse of choke/strangulation collar.
I have seen this first hand, and worked with many dogs that where totally phucked up with these devices, and by owners that have no idea how to shape a behavior with a positive reinforcement let alone a negative one.
Put one on yourself for a day, and hand the remote to your kids to get an idea what the dog will have to deal with.
In my professional opinion it is far better it is to catch the dog doing something right, and reward him for that, and to prevent unwanted behaviors then to run around all day zaping ones dog.
As an alternative, learn what language your dog speaks...Start here:
http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1
Then if you must use a training prop, learn operant conditioning:
http://www.clickersolutions.com/
I have seen this first hand, and worked with many dogs that where totally phucked up with these devices, and by owners that have no idea how to shape a behavior with a positive reinforcement let alone a negative one.
Put one on yourself for a day, and hand the remote to your kids to get an idea what the dog will have to deal with.
In my professional opinion it is far better it is to catch the dog doing something right, and reward him for that, and to prevent unwanted behaviors then to run around all day zaping ones dog.
As an alternative, learn what language your dog speaks...Start here:
http://www.canis.no/rugaas/onearticle.php?artid=1
Then if you must use a training prop, learn operant conditioning:
http://www.clickersolutions.com/
Griffoneur said:
If you need to correct a dog in such a manner then you have put the dog in a situation where it can fail, and you have failed in training the dog...what method do you use with your falcons?
I bet it is not with tiny shock collars... I bet it is with carefully shaped behavior with positive re enforcement coupled with prevention of putting the bird in a situation that it can fail...ie simply fly away.
What do I do for an 11-month old Golden who chews on and eats all sorts of crap? You name it, she's already pooped it. Anything and everything she encounters she'll eat first, ask questions later. She knows the OFF command w.r.t. treats/cheese, and she'll lay down until we reward her. But she doesn't know that EVERYTHING in the world should be considered 'OFF' and shouldn't be eaten.
This morning she puked up a shopping bag she had swallowed whole on midday Sunday. I had no idea she'd eaten it.
This morning she puked up a shopping bag she had swallowed whole on midday Sunday. I had no idea she'd eaten it.
Dr.Chris said:
Chris, IMHO, your ahead of the game at 6 months. As for digging, try a spray bottle(water), or pop can with 50 cents in pennies in it.
When you catch him/her, squirt, or shake the can, and be vocal in your disapproval. Much easier than the collar, and gets the same desired effect.
Its a much better alternative to a bark/training collar IMHO, and your dog wont have any spiteful feelings towards you.
Im not a professional dog trainer, there are guys her with mountains more experience.
I've got a 10 month old Jack russell that is phenominal for her age, but still leaves some to be desired. If I do my part, She succeeds nearly every time, and picks up new tricks fast.
Much different than training a lab/retreiver.
Grouse Man said:
Try to teach your dog the commands "leave it" and "take it". Start by holding a treat in your fist. If the dog tries to get it, say "leave it" If the dog starts to show disinterest, praise the dog - then open your hand and say "take it" - again, praise the dog. Then progress to putting dog treats on the floor, walking your dog almost within reach and commanding "leave it" when the dog reaches. When the dog starts to show disinterest in the treat, say "yes", "good dog", then reward the dog with a treat - again, say "take it". As you progress, the exercise gets more complex with more distractions - toys, kids, food, etc. It takes a lot of time, patience and practice to break the habit, but it works.
as promac said, use words to distinguish behavior. Off, Down, NO, and leave it all have different meanings when training a dog. (or atleast they should)
You need a specific command "for leave it the #### alone now"
With my dog, its a loud "Ah" (or Uhh) for dont touch yet, or just leave it. (treats, toys etc)
"Leave it" is for things she cannot have at all. (Dead birds, small children etc)
BTW, Obedience school is more for the owner, than the dog, and I recommend anyone with limited experience to take a class. It just might be the best 100-200 bucks you ever spend.
You need a specific command "for leave it the #### alone now"
With my dog, its a loud "Ah" (or Uhh) for dont touch yet, or just leave it. (treats, toys etc)
"Leave it" is for things she cannot have at all. (Dead birds, small children etc
) BTW, Obedience school is more for the owner, than the dog, and I recommend anyone with limited experience to take a class. It just might be the best 100-200 bucks you ever spend.
Okay, we're halfway there. Her training class did teach us the word OFF for when not to eat a treat, and TAKE IT to have her treat. And she will do this fairly well, so she does understand the command OFF. So now I just have to apply that command OFF to the kitchen cupboards, serviettes, kleenex, cardboard, sticks, branches, plants, bags, table legs, kids toys, mitts, socks, shoes, my wallet, my wife's sunglasses, Light Bright pegs, Barbie clothes, screwdrivers, anything on the kitchen counter or in a frying pan, poop, Tim Horton cups, newspaper, you know, stuff like that.
There's a bitter spray that's supposed to keep dogs from chewing things; doesn't phase her in the least.
She has lots of toys in the yard. Maybe we should add a few more but only rotate a few at a time.
There's a bitter spray that's supposed to keep dogs from chewing things; doesn't phase her in the least.
She has lots of toys in the yard. Maybe we should add a few more but only rotate a few at a time.
Bitter Spray
There are several brands and kinds of bitter sprays, you could try a different one. I've been told they have to be reapplied DAILY. PetSmart is good about taking back partially used bottles if your dog likes the taste of one brand. Some dogs like all of them.
I'm reasonably lucky with the chewing. As a puppy if he chewed on something he was not supposed to I replaced it with a toy that he WAS allowed to chew. Now he pretty much only chews his toys. Though if he is locked up for an extended period of time (like overnight) he tends to chew outside corners.
Chris
Grouse Man said:
There are several brands and kinds of bitter sprays, you could try a different one. I've been told they have to be reapplied DAILY. PetSmart is good about taking back partially used bottles if your dog likes the taste of one brand. Some dogs like all of them.
I'm reasonably lucky with the chewing. As a puppy if he chewed on something he was not supposed to I replaced it with a toy that he WAS allowed to chew. Now he pretty much only chews his toys. Though if he is locked up for an extended period of time (like overnight) he tends to chew outside corners.
Chris
dog
More exercise and one on one will help slow the chewing. I would also not offer a yard full of toys, channel the energy, don't spread it out more.
The kong toys or nyla bones do keep them busy. And I'll probably get pounded for this, But I give my dogs beef knuckle bones. Much more interesting for them than fake bones.
More exercise and one on one will help slow the chewing. I would also not offer a yard full of toys, channel the energy, don't spread it out more.
The kong toys or nyla bones do keep them busy. And I'll probably get pounded for this, But I give my dogs beef knuckle bones. Much more interesting for them than fake bones.
Shocking collars were originally invented by houndsmen and they work perfectly for that intended use. Tritronics makes the best one--thats why they are the most expensive.
You don't train hounds --you hunt them. How you would use an e-collar to train with I have no idea. Iam not a trainer but I do have very well mannered hounds.
You don't train hounds --you hunt them. How you would use an e-collar to train with I have no idea. Iam not a trainer but I do have very well mannered hounds.
I think you and I are similar in the way that I never claimed to be a trainer yet found training my spaniels to be natural. Plenty of people here pay for advice and training and to be honest I always exlain to them that the dog knows what to do, its the person that needs training to get the most from/recognise the limits of their dogs and their own ability!kkahmann said:
Tried and Failed
I tried a shock collar once. Put it on her. She liked the colour and feel, right up until the first time I hit the button. What a shock. The look on her face almost broke my heart. That sorrowful look, as is to say "why cant I be free?". Those days we were out walking, the more she tried to run off, the more I used the collar. She came to resent it. Trying to squirm out of it, to get it off her neck.
Then THAT day came, she finally figured out how to get out of it. We were out, walking, and she saw something to the left of us that she had to see closer. She started to bolt. I hit the button...once....twice....a third time. The shocks didn't matter..... she struggled with the collar and off it came... she bolted.... running faster and faster. I called her name but she either didn't hear me or just ignored me... running right for that item that caught her attention. I thought for sure that was it, I'd loose her forever..... but she stopped. Dead in her tracks, staring right at the item of her attention.
A big shiney diamond in the window of the jewellery store...
and that's the last time I was able to stop my wife from maxing out my credit cards!!!
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Thanks for the indulgance.
I tried a shock collar once. Put it on her. She liked the colour and feel, right up until the first time I hit the button. What a shock. The look on her face almost broke my heart. That sorrowful look, as is to say "why cant I be free?". Those days we were out walking, the more she tried to run off, the more I used the collar. She came to resent it. Trying to squirm out of it, to get it off her neck.
Then THAT day came, she finally figured out how to get out of it. We were out, walking, and she saw something to the left of us that she had to see closer. She started to bolt. I hit the button...once....twice....a third time. The shocks didn't matter..... she struggled with the collar and off it came... she bolted.... running faster and faster. I called her name but she either didn't hear me or just ignored me... running right for that item that caught her attention. I thought for sure that was it, I'd loose her forever..... but she stopped. Dead in her tracks, staring right at the item of her attention.
A big shiney diamond in the window of the jewellery store...
and that's the last time I was able to stop my wife from maxing out my credit cards!!!
I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. Thanks for the indulgance.
