Dogs hunting deer in Ont.

[Petamocto]

I am an outsider to hunting so I am unbiased. My logic would tell me that the more you could make the deer move around, the more likely it would be that deer would cross in front of you at some point that day.

I've drawn up this lame sketch to demonstrate the concept. You are the hunter X, and the arc around you is your kill radius. The brown tracks are the ground a deer covers. In sketch 1 the deer are bored and move a little bit. In sketch 2 something is making the deer cover a lot more ground, and the probability is a lot higher that you're going to get to shoot something.

If your aim is to kill deer, then the dogs would theoretically help. I guess the question comes down to whether you would rather have dogs run through your property and you kill more deer, or you would rather have no dogs and no deer?

 

[fugawi]

I've got no irons in this fire since I hunt in Manitoba, but I wish we could use dogs here to track wounded deer; not to push them.

That said I hunt crown land mostly and it belongs to everyone including the deer, wolf, coyote, waterfowl and upland hunters; who seasons all overlap more or less. If I was using a dog to push deer during the rifle deer season I'd be concerned some irresponsible hunter would accidentally or maliciously shoot my dog.

I had one experience while stalking deer when I saw movement up the trail in the underbrush. Turned out to be two off leash spaniels blithely running the trail. Dogs were followed about 5-10 minutes later by their handler who was hunting grouse on opening day of rifle deer. None had blaze on. (not dogs nor grouse hunter, who was in violation of the hunter dress regs during MB rifle deer)

 

[Waterfowler]

But if a dog pushes a smasher of a buck to you and you shoot it that's ok though?

Dogs don't necessarily have to be "ON" the deer to push it.. The ruckus they cause tends to get the smashers sneaking out of the way of the dogs easily, and just maybe into your shooting lane.. Im sure this scenario would be just fine by you, no?

Actually no it's still not fine. I am mainly archery hunting in this spot and I have no interest In shooting a driven, bumped or chased deer there.

If dogs are released knowing full well they are likely going to run through private land, I don't see how anyone thinks this is ok. What's the difference if the dogs push it or a man walks thru and pushes it??? Oh yeah, the dog can't read.

Where there is lots of crown land or you have permission on a ton of land fine. But to run dogs where you don't have permission to hunt yourself is douchey at best.

I should clarify that where I hunt there are no dogs allowed for deer however the coyote hunters usually start running while archery season is still open.

 

[Waterfowler]

I just love hunting over good hounds .there is nothing better then hearing a hound opening up on a cold frosty morning .you just know someone is going to get shooting .just a fun way to hunt .and I think every one that hunts deer should try hunting with hounds at least once .Dutch

I agree. And I have done it and enjoyed it. But there is a time and place for everything.

 

[Waterfowler]

Waterfowler, you may "hear" or in this case "read" what is being said but your not comprehending a word it. H"mmm, Let me guess, a died in the wool southern Ontario city boy who has purchased 100 acres which everybody and everything has to stay off of except mature white tail bucks.
Once the hounds are off the leash they go where they want, period. I respectfully suggest the next time the dogs trespass on your property you catch them sit them down and explain your property boundary lines to them. Then march on over to those irresponsible dog owners and read the riot act to them as well. That will solve all your problems, until next time..!
I certainly don't mean to be rude here but your just not understanding or aware of how hounds operate and what little control a man has over there movements once released. And like captonion has pointed out all this activity can work out to your benefit.

Actually I have a very good understanding of how dogs run. I guess my issue isn't so much with the dogs as it is with the idiots (I don't mean to be rude) releasing the dogs in areas where there is a lot of privately owned properties.

 

[Waterfowler]

So put up a 10' fence around your 100 acres. Not only can you keep the dogs out, but you can also make sure none of YOUR deer stray onto the neighbors land. Oh, and you can also keep out those pesky neighbor deer too...

Never once have I said anything about MY deer. Doesn't sound to me like u know too much about deer

But you certainly sound like "that guy" that thinks he can go wherever he wants tho.

 

[Waterfowler]

I am an outsider to hunting so I am unbiased. My logic would tell me that the more you could make the deer move around, the more likely it would be that deer would cross in front of you at some point that day.

I've drawn up this lame sketch to demonstrate the concept. You are the hunter X, and the arc around you is your kill radius. The brown tracks are the ground a deer covers. In sketch 1 the deer are bored and move a little bit. In sketch 2 something is making the deer cover a lot more ground, and the probability is a lot higher that you're going to get to shoot something.

If your aim is to kill deer, then the dogs would theoretically help. I guess the question comes down to whether you would rather have dogs run through your property and you kill more deer, or you would rather have no dogs and no deer?

There is a HUGE difference between killing deer and killing mature deer. I will leave it at that.

 

[Waterfowler]

Again, I have no problem with running deer or yotes or whatever with dogs.

But what is the difference if I let my dogs go knowing they are going to push thru private land that I don't have permission on or if I go push through it myself?? The end result is the same is it not??

 

[Duck_Hunter]

As a landowner I too have an annoyance with others and their dogs especially some of the surrounding properties who have given out permission to those who run dogs. I will tell you 100% that there is no doubt dogs cause bucks to go completely nocturnal, proven every year here with cameras, impossible for them not to when your running the same couple hundred acres every day! Anyone who thinks its ok for someone's dogs to run someone else's property because the dog can't read is a lowlife IMO. Buy your own property, pay the mortgage, property tax and maintenance and then I'll stroll through it for a couple weeks each year during deer season because maybe I am illiterate as well. Keep your hound on a leash if you can't keep it on your property!
Another observation has been the amount of wounded deer when people who take there rifle out of the case the day before deer season expect to shoot a whitetail on the run in front of a dog.
Gotta love archery season

 

[Ol' Smokey]

As a landowner I too have an annoyance with others and their dogs especially some of the surrounding properties who have given out permission to those who run dogs. I will tell you 100% that there is no doubt dogs cause bucks to go completely nocturnal, proven every year here with cameras, impossible for them not to when your running the same couple hundred acres every day! Anyone who thinks its ok for someone's dogs to run someone else's property because the dog can't read is a lowlife IMO. Buy your own property, pay the mortgage, property tax and maintenance and then I'll stroll through it for a couple weeks each year during deer season because maybe I am illiterate as well. Keep your hound on a leash if you can't keep it on your property!
Another observation has been the amount of wounded deer when people who take there rifle out of the case the day before deer season expect to shoot a whitetail on the run in front of a dog.
Gotta love archery season

There's generally little respect for private property these days. Issues with trespassing hunters, quads, snow machines, etc. are commonplace and immensely frustrating for landowners. Its even worse when they harm your enjoyment/use of your own property, by damaging fences, gates, etc., stealing property like stands and trail cams, and messing up hunting for guys who might be bowhunting, among other things.

 

[kodiakjack]

Never once have I said anything about MY deer. Doesn't sound to me like u know too much about deer

But you certainly sound like "that guy" that thinks he can go wherever he wants tho.

Plug in your sarcasm meter Waterfowler

And I strongly resent your suggestion that I tresspass, or don't respect property lines. Nothing could be further from the truth. I do not hunt with dogs, nor have I ever. I never step foot on property I don't have permission to be on. If more than on group has permission for the same property, we contact them and work out a schedule so we won't be in the area at the same time.

What I meant in my original post, is that I don't think you understand the tenacity of a beagle on the trail. Those critters will literally run themselves to death. There may be a few ###### hunters out there, but for the most part, they won't release there dogs if they think they'll end up on someone else's property. They risk losing their dogs.

Anyways, the dogs are only out there during rifle season. Bow hunting during rifle season isn't the most productive activity. Dog-runners could be forgiven for assuming that IF a dog gets away, it wouldn't be disturbing any nearby bow hunters. They're liable to assume you'd BOWhunt during BOW season. But if you like getting pissed off about petty things you can't control, that's your prerogative.

Youve really only got three options; Build a fence, Put an arrow through the dog, or quit whining and suck it up and make the most of it.

 

[Waterfowler]

Or go to the township council and lobby to have a bylaw put in place.

Interesting how u suggested killing the dog. Do you normally suggest people commit criminal offences??

 

[Petamocto]

Another outside the box option, what about getting bigger kickass dogs that will protect your property and deter smaller yippy dogs?

If you don't like Beagles on your property, chase them off with a Bullmastiff / Shephard / Rottweiler, etc.

 

[Waterfowler]

Lol.....not sure that would help me with my issue.

 

[kodiakjack]

Or go to the township council and lobby to have a bylaw put in place.

Interesting how u suggested killing the dog. Do you normally suggest people commit criminal offences??

Holy s**t Waterfowler, you have no concept of sarcasm. For God's sake, the fence and arrow options were meant to be inconceivably outrageous enough to direct you to the more obvious third choice. God! I can't believe you need it explained to you. And if you'd read my first post, you'd have seen that my concern for the well being of the dogs was my only concern with dog-running.

Anyway, good luck with your bylaw implementation. I bet the local land owners will be pleased as punch to have an out-of-towner citiot propose changes to THEIR bylaws.

Attention Waterfowler: the above statement is an example of sarcasm, and in no way implies that your bylaw would have a snowball's chance in hell

Is that ^ clear enough?

 

[hawk-i]

Why spend hundreds of thousands on private land for hunting when all you need to do is buy a smart dog that will push game off private land to you? There are few spots around BC that I'd love to be able to do on, however here in BC the landowner has the right to shoot dogs on sight if livestock is present. Do they have the same type of law in ontario?

 

[Waterfowler]

Holy s**t Waterfowler, you have no concept of sarcasm. For God's sake, the fence and arrow options were meant to be inconceivably outrageous enough to direct you to the more obvious third choice. God! I can't believe you need it explained to you. And if you'd read my first post, you'd have seen that my concern for the well being of the dogs was my only concern with dog-running.

Anyway, good luck with your bylaw implementation. I bet the local land owners will be pleased as punch to have an out-of-towner citiot propose changes to THEIR bylaws.

Attention Waterfowler: the above statement is an example of sarcasm, and in no way implies that your bylaw would have a snowball's chance in hell

Is that ^ clear enough?

Funny how u assume I am from out of town. You know nothing.

I love the "it's sarcasm" excuse u continue to use. Maybe try more smiley faces.

 

[Waterfowler]

Why spend hundreds of thousands on private land for hunting when all you need to do is buy a smart dog that will push game off private land to you? There are few spots around BC that I'd love to be able to do on, however here in BC the landowner has the right to shoot dogs on sight if livestock is present. Do they have the same type of law in ontario?

No a landowner cannot shoot a dog in ontario under such circumstances. Although some here seem to think it's an option.

 

[kodiakjack]

Funny how u assume I am from out of town. You know nothing.

I love the "it's sarcasm" excuse u continue to use. Maybe try more smiley faces.

Alright. I'm not looking to pick a fight here. You're right, I know nothing about you. The out of town assumption was because you have "southern ontario" listed as your location under your avatar. But who knows, maybe you've moved recently. And I'm sorry I called you a citiot. That was rude. Sometimes I get a little boisterous behind the veil of the internet's anonymity.

Truth is, I used to feel the same way as you about the dogs. I'd get all set up in what I thought was the perfect stand, then a beagle would come trotting by and leave his scent all over the area I was planning to sit for the next 4 hours. You're right. It is a piss off. But realistically, there's not much you can do... and a floppy eared beagle is too cute to get mad at. Eventually, I just learned to accept the four legged visitors. Some beef jerky, a splash of water, and a scratch behind the ears can really make a beagle's day.

I guess I could have summed up all of my other posts into one old adage: "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

The few days per year we get to enjoy hunting in the woods are too precious to spend time worrying about misguided muts.


Anyway, I wish you and your gang a successful hunt, and I hope the hounds leave you alone long enough to get that big buck you've been scouting.


Cheers, (and sorry for being a jerk),

KodiakJack

 

[Home3]

For God's sake, the fence and arrow options were meant to be inconceivably outrageous enough to direct you to the more obvious third choice.......... I bet the local land owners will be pleased as punch to have an out-of-towner citiot propose changes to THEIR bylaws.

So your "obvious choice" for farmers/landowners is to "suck it up"? Is that also sarcasm or a fact?!

Here is a weird idea; if ones dogs regularly end up on other people's property and push deer away from other hunters or disturb their hunt in anyway, or they tend to end up in other hunters camp for the night year after year and the handler doesn't give a damn to look for them, then maybe it is time for you to retire those poor dogs! No?

As to your second comment that it is only city dudes who have problem with this, and "Locals" apparently love it, you have no idea how mistaken you are. More than once I have had to lower some "local" guys' rifle barrel and tell him please don't, they are just doing what they have been told to do. In fact, I think any petition to ban dog hunting will be received very well in most areas.

BTW, I actually am a city person. But I bet I know a lot more than you about my hunt area locals because I hunt with them every session.