Dominion Arms Grizzly Shotgun .....12.5" bbl.

pricedo

pricedo

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Just ordered a Dominion Arms Grizzly shotgun with a 12.5" bbl. (3" chamber).

These apparently are NON-RESTRICTED...........so no wrestling with the Ontario CFO to get a Wilderness Occupation ATC & recreational fisherman, campers, etc., can use it also if they can convince the game warden that they're not poaching.

Checked the internet for field tests & range reports and the general assessment of the little shotgun is that it is very well made, functions flawlessly and prints decent groups on paper with slugs.

Looks like the Grizzly has all the qualities a fisherman, prospector, geologist or timber harvester would want in a shotgun for protection from predatory black bears in Northern Ontario.

The place is literally crawling with hungry black bears since the Ontario government cancelled the spring black bear hunt.

It's also nice to know that we have something legal in Canada that is illegal or restricted (NFA firearm) in the United States.

Only in Canada........eh? (sounds like an old tea advertisement)

That is quite unusual in itself...........usually the converse is true.

I'm wondering how long they will be legal in Canada?

Have any members of this board field tested one of these shotguns?

If so......................RESULTS?

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
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Hi pricedo,
The Dominions have been a hot topic of discussion for a long time on the shotgun thread, they're a great gun. If you really want to give the game warden COs fits you should have ordered the 8.5" Dlask 870! ;)

BTW what's a a Wilderness Occupation ATC? In BC here ATCs are only for restricted firearms.
Cheers
 
Just make sure that you limit the mag tube to two rounds. Believe that is a requirement in Ontario, regardless of what your using it for in the woods. Someone will be along shortly to correctly me if I've mispoken.
 
It is two in the tube and one in the chamber for all shotgun hunting in ontario. For plinking/protection I am fairly certain there is no limit, 95% certain.
 
In Quebec, upland fowl is limited to 3 rounds, bunnies you can take the plug out and load her up to max.

Pricedo,
I have a Grizzly. Surprisingly very well built. However, the Chinese steel is damn HEAVY. If hiking, it will add considerable weight to your pack. If boating, it makes a great anchor. If using for protection and you run out of shells, it doubles as a club and will crack the thickest of skulls.

It comes with a "pistol grip". Should you decide to install the pistol grip, you will have created a restricted firearm and you will have 30 DAYS to notify your CFO that said firearm has been "modified". Should you re-install the rifle stock within 30 DAYS, your shotgun is once again "non-restricted". Aren't our laws just so damn logical? Anyhow, just don't forget not to leave the pistol grip on for longer than 30 DAYS.
 
Thanx for the info........I can't wait for mine to arrive !

Griffoneur said:
In Quebec, upland fowl is limited to 3 rounds, bunnies you can take the plug out and load her up to max.

Pricedo,
I have a Grizzly. Surprisingly very well built. However, the Chinese steel is damn HEAVY. If hiking, it will add considerable weight to your pack. If boating, it makes a great anchor. If using for protection and you run out of shells, it doubles as a club and will crack the thickest of skulls.

It comes with a "pistol grip". Should you decide to install the pistol grip, you will have created a restricted firearm and you will have 30 DAYS to notify your CFO that said firearm has been "modified". Should you re-install the rifle stock within 30 DAYS, your shotgun is once again "non-restricted". Aren't our laws just so damn logical? Anyhow, just don't forget not to leave the pistol grip on for longer than 30 DAYS.
Click to expand...

Then again, you wouldn't want that thing weighing 3 1/2 pounds.

It's the animal in front of the gun, not the one holding it that you want to die.

I was wondering whether or not to install an internal muzzle brake on it if it proved to be too "sassy" with full power rifled slugs.

Looks like a great brush gun for deer in "shotguns only" areas.........a real fast pointer..........I got the one with the peep sight.

The Grizzly will probably be another gun added to the Liberal hit list.

The cops will be rolling up to my door with a dump truck & a fork lift when the bans start so one more won't even be noticed.

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
Griffoneur said:
It comes with a "pistol grip". Should you decide to install the pistol grip, you will have created a restricted firearm and you will have 30 DAYS to notify your CFO that said firearm has been "modified". Should you re-install the rifle stock within 30 DAYS, your shotgun is once again "non-restricted". Aren't our laws just so damn logical? Anyhow, just don't forget not to leave the pistol grip on for longer than 30 DAYS.
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putting on the pistol grip, which is a factory component, is not considered an alteration of the firearm. You can keep the PG on for as long as you want and it will still be non-rest. If what you said was true, the alteration would make the firearm prohibited, not restricted.

What firearms are prohibited?

The Criminal Code defines the following firearms as prohibited:

automatics, including those that have been converted so that they can only fire one projectile when the trigger is squeezed;

handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.1 inches) or less, and handguns that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition, except for a few specific models used in International Shooting Union competitions;.

rifles and shotguns that have been altered so that their barrel length is less than 457 mm (about 18 inches) or their overall length is less than 660 mm (about 26 inches); or

any firearm prescribed as prohibited – These can be found in the fact sheet listing restricted and prohibited firearms.
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http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/prohibited_e.asp
 
1700+ Winchester Value pack.
600+ Winchester 2 3/4" Slugs.
180 Winchester 3" Slugs.
360+ Fiocchi Slugs.
450+ Fiocchi Buckshot.
400+ Rio20 Birdshot.
30+ Ranger LowRecoil Slugs.

The round count is only going to keep climbing!

After bout 1000 continuous rounds, the shells stick ejecting sometimes, tho take notice the way you stroke the action greatly affects how the gun ejects. It likes to be racked hard on the way back to eject.

Pulled barrel off, gave action a quick wipe with the corner of my t-shirt around the breech an extractors, put barrel back on an kept shooting for another 500-600 rounds before I went home.

I love this god damn gun!!!

If anyone is wondering, Yes I do go out shooting between 1-4 times a week depending on my mood.
 
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The Dominion Grizzly's legal class with the factory pistol grip installed?

Wildfoot said:
putting on the pistol grip, which is a factory component, is not considered an alteration of the firearm. You can keep the PG on for as long as you want and it will still be non-rest. If what you said was true, the alteration would make the firearm prohibited, not restricted.


http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/prohibited_e.asp
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Is the overall length of the Grizzly less than 26" if the pistol grip is installed.

If the OAL is less than 26" with the factory hardware then the gun is RESTRICTED.

The Criminal Code is quite specific on that.

According to the Criminal Code, a restricted firearm is:

A handgun that is not a prohibited firearm;
A semi-automatic, centre-fire firearm with a barrel length less than 470 mm that is not a prohibited firearm;
A firearm that can fire after being reduced, by folding, telescoping or otherwise, to an overall length of less than 660 mm; and
Any firearm prescribed under the Criminal Code regulations to be restricted (including some long guns).


The Criminal Code defines the following firearms as prohibited:

automatics, including those that have been converted so that they can only fire one projectile when the trigger is squeezed;
handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm (4.1 inches) or less, and handguns that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition, except for a few specific models used in International Shooting Union competitions;.
rifles and shotguns that have been altered so that their barrel length is less than 457 mm (about 18 inches) or their overall length is less than 660 mm (about 26 inches); or
any firearm prescribed as prohibited – These can be found in the fact sheet listing restricted and prohibited firearms.


Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
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pricedo said:
Is the overall length of the Grizzly less than 26" if the pistol grip is installed.

If the OAL is less than 26" with the factory hardware then the gun is RESTRICTED.

The Criminal Code is quite specific on that.

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
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nope. that is not what the law says.

Definition Of A Restricted Firearm

According to the Criminal Code, a restricted firearm is:
A handgun that is not a prohibited firearm;
A semi-automatic, centre-fire firearm with a barrel length less than 470 mm that is not a prohibited firearm;
A firearm that can fire after being reduced, by folding, telescoping or otherwise, to an overall length of less than 660 mm; and
Any firearm prescribed under the Criminal Code regulations to be restricted (including some long guns).
Click to expand...

Using the factory-equipped pistol grip is not considered a way to reduce the length of the gun. Putting a folding stock on the shotgun would make it restricted, if OAL < 26". Putting a PG on a shotgun that does not come from the factory with a PG would make it prohibited - if OAL is < 26". A straight-from-factory PG shotgun (not semi-auto) < 26" OAL is currently non-restricted.
 
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CCC Part III Section 84

Wildfoot said:
nope. that is not what the law says.



Using the factory-equipped pistol grip is not considered a way to reduce the length of the gun. Putting a folding stock on the shotgun would make it restricted, if OAL < 26". Putting a PG on a shotgun that does not come from the factory with a PG would make it prohibited - if OAL is < 26". A straight-from-factory PG shotgun (not semi-auto) < 26" OAL is currently non-restricted.
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DIRECT QUOTE FROM THE STATUTE (not a subjective interpretation)

PART III

FIREARMS AND OTHER WEAPONS

Interpretation


"restricted firearm" means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,


(c) a firearm that is DESIGNED or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm;




"prohibited firearm" means

(a) a handgun that

(i) has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or

(ii) is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge,

but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,

(b) a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted,

(i) is less than 660 mm in length, or

(ii) is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,

(c) an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or

(d) any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm;


(c) a firearm that is DESIGNED or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise
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The OR in the above direct quote from the CCC means that the phrase "a firearm that is DESIGNED" can stand alone from the rest of the statement & states in no uncertain terms that any firearm designed to be fired when less than 660mm (26") in overall length is a RESTRICTED firearm.

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
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If you look at the beige registration certificate, before you cut out the wallet sized card you will note the
"STANDARD CONDITIONS"
Firearms owners must report to the Registrar of Firearms, within 30 days:
- any modification to the firearm that affects its classification (non-restricted, restricted, prohibited);
Putting the pistol grip on it makes it an OAL of 22". This affects its classification. you now have 30 days to declare the change.

If you think otherwise, take your Grizz with pistol grip down to the CFO office and tell him the pistol grip has been on it for 6 months. I can garantee you that you will not be returning home with the shotgun, you may not be sleeping in your bed that night either!

The reason the shotgun doesn't come with pisto grip installed is because it would then be restricted.

The only reason we have the Grizzly is due to a loophole in C-68. If the Libs were in power, that hole would be filled in pretty quickly.
 
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I talked to both the CFO and then to the firearms techs with the RCMP just last week. If you use a factory pistol grip and factory barrel and it is under 26 over all, it is restricted. If you cut the barrel or the stock (as opposed to store bought parts) it is prohibited. If you register it as restricted, it is restricted forever no matter what length of barrel you use. If you have it in the bush with the pistol grip on, you are considered to be carrying a handgun.
People have said otherwise and even claim to have it in writing, but nobody has posted it. Unless I see it or it is challenged in court I will be following the interpretation I have been given.
 
Yes, the CFo's believe you have created a handgun by installing the pistol grip. It is not about the length, per se. But until this sees a courtroom, we only have our interpretation of the law to go by.

If you believe a 12.5" PG shotgun is a handgun then their you have it.
 
I realize this, but unfortunately it's not our interpretation that counts, and as you say it will take the courts to make a decision on this. It's also unfortunate that the onus is on us to prove that it's not a handgun. I have heard rumors of a court challenge, but nobody has confirmed anything. If this ever gets sorted out it should be stickied. I know that the local cfo says pistol grip= charges. I could re classify mine as restricted as I just want it to play with at the range and I have a number of shotguns, but the thought of it burns my A$$. For now it's just watch and wait if this supposed court case ever comes about.
 
A peek at the future of the Grizzly shotgun

dogzilla said:
I realize this, but unfortunately it's not our interpretation that counts, and as you say it will take the courts to make a decision on this. It's also unfortunate that the onus is on us to prove that it's not a handgun. I have heard rumors of a court challenge, but nobody has confirmed anything. If this ever gets sorted out it should be stickied. I know that the local cfo says pistol grip= charges. I could re classify mine as restricted as I just want it to play with at the range and I have a number of shotguns, but the thought of it burns my A$$. For now it's just watch and wait if this supposed court case ever comes about.
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I'll just assume that the Grizzly + pistol grip = Restricted as per the letter of the written law CCC Sec. 84 because it is designed to discharge ammo at an OAL of 22" which is less that 660 mm or 26".

Without an ATC this combo (Grizzly + pistol grip) isn't a bush gun.

We already know what the court outcome will be without buying a lawyer a new Jaguar.

As usual (like 12.xx & SAPs) don't expect any help from the CPC federal government.

The CFO will send a lawyer to challenge our position & a Liberal annointed & appointed judge will declare the Grizzly/pistol grip combo RESTRICTED.

The Liberals will return to power within 10 years and make an OIC declaring any centre fire firearm with less than a 18" barrel RESTRICTED and hundreds of 12.5" barrel Grizzlies will be coming out of bush planes, wilderness fishing, trapping & hunting camps, ATVs, & half ton trucks (where they will have probably saved human lives from predatory black bear attacks and served as compact survival firearms) & into gun safes except for the odd trip to an approved range.

Life Memberships: NRA, GOA, CSSA, NFA, OFAH
CCW Permits: Utah, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Maine
 
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"restricted firearm" means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

Whoa! I must have missed something; does shotshell count as "centre-fire ammo"? Sub-question: "does that make autoloading fowl shotties/benelli m4/m2's restricted?" Garand? Norinco 14's? Everything I want? :runaway:
 
pricedo said:
per the letter of the written law CCC Sec. 84.
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I don't see it, and both the CFO and the FRT lab state the issue is with guns with barrels under 16" (yes 16", they pulled that from thin air) and PG being handguns, not under 26", per se.

So the argument is whether one can consider a 12ga SG with a 16" bbl and PG a pistol, period.
 
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