Downsizing .458 factory bullets to .452/.453

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Freyr_255

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Just wondering if anyone knows of any issues cropping up with sizing down factory bullets? I'm kinda tossing around the idea since .458 bullets are extremely common and of such a construction that they will hold up better in my 454 puma than any pistol bullet would. Ya I can cast bullets but I wouldn't mind some of the premium bullets to play with so I was just thinking about what I could use.

Specifically I'm thinking I wouldn't mind trying out some TSXs in it. :D
 
Good question. I'm thinking I can do it with the FN TSX bullets designed for 45/70 use. I also have a bit of extra room before I get a compressed loading and worst case I use the 240gr ones.

Really given the solid copper design I don't seem much issue with downsizing so the original question is I guess more pertaining to jacketed lead bullets.

The FN TSX bullets look like this:

BAR45843.jpg
 
This project seems doomed and makes no sense to me although i don't have much experience with the Puma, I know the OAL required is quite short for proper functioning. Proper hardcast bullets designed with a gas check and short nose, like the LBT WFN or ogividal WC (not sure about the spelling) would be better for your purposes.IMHO
 
I tried resizing Hornady 200gr .338 dia jacketed bullets through a Lee .329 dia sizer for the 8x56 Hungarian round, but either my press couldn't generate the force required or I am too weak.:D
Lee claims you can do this and they can make custom sized sizing dies for a reasonable fee. I think my little RCBS Junior press just wasn't up to the task.
 
ben hunchak said:
This project seems doomed and makes no sense to me although i don't have much experience with the Puma, I know the OAL required is quite short for proper functioning. Proper hardcast bullets designed with a gas check and short nose, like the LBT WFN or ogividal WC (not sure about the spelling) would be better for your purposes.IMHO
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The point? Because good 454 bullets are a ##### to find unless you feel like getting a custom mold cut and working out an alloy that gives the desired hardness without being brittle. Both of which I'm not feeling at the moment.

Also I like options. Just because. :p

As a side note most of the jamming in the M92 action comes from the steep upward angle of the cartridge on the lifter arm as it enters the chamber. As long as the COL is short enough for it to not jam the lifter arm a pointier nose is better for feeding.

I tried resizing Hornady 200gr .338 dia jacketed bullets through a Lee .329 dia sizer for the 8x56 Hungarian round, but either my press couldn't generate the force required or I am too weak.
Lee claims you can do this and they can make custom sized sizing dies for a reasonable fee. I think my little RCBS Junior press just wasn't up to the task.
Click to expand...
Did you remember to lube them before trying to downsize them? Also with my lee sizer I got one size smaller(0.002" smaller) and polished the inside of the die with emery paper out to about 0.4535 or so(emery paper and a dowel does a good job...just remember to always keep it moving around in circular motions inside the die to prevent a low spot). Makes em slicker than snot since they come really rough cut.
 
Search the american gun forums, there's lots of info there on downsizing and even some on upsizing. Downsizing .458 to .452 is talked about a fair bit, and it is a small bump. Cast bullets seem to be easiest, but lots of fellows doing it with jacketed as well. Not sure about TSX in particular.
 
Did you remember to lube them before trying to downsize them? Also with my lee sizer I got one size smaller(0.002" smaller) and polished the inside of the die with emery paper out to about 0.4535 or so(emery paper and a dowel does a good job...just remember to always keep it moving around in circular motions inside the die to prevent a low spot). Makes em slicker than snot since they come really rough cut.
Click to expand...

I tried lubing them and polishing the sizing die with no luck. I think my press is just to small for the job.
 
Hmm I've been contemplating how to do this as well.
I need to go from .323 to .315/6" my bore is .316....didn't think a solid copper/partition bullet was a very smart idea however.
You say it can be done?
Is there any way of doing it in a rock crusher/oarnge crusher II ?
Can the dies be bought?
 
ciphery said:
Hmm I've been contemplating how to do this as well.
I need to go from .323 to .315/6" my bore is .316....didn't think a solid copper/partition bullet was a very smart idea however.
You say it can be done?
Is there any way of doing it in a rock crusher/oarnge crusher II ?
Can the dies be bought?
Click to expand...

My experience with this is pretty limited and unsuccessful, but according to the Lee tech department it is easy and simple to do. You may have to custom order the correct size of die for your bore diameter, but the price is pretty reasonable. You also may want to consider ordering one slightly smaller, then polishing the inside as Freyr 255 pointed out. They are really rough on the inside.

I think a Rock Crusher/Orange Crusher II should generate enough force. My RCBS JR3 press is a really small, pathetic press and just couldn't do it.
 
Of course it can be done.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374843

Choose the right bullet (Speer Hot-Cor work well, solid copper, not so much) and the right lube to start. A "toy" press might break, but not a Rock Crusher or the more expensive Lee. Do it in stages, either through successively smaller sizing dies, and/or by screwing the sizing die down towards the shellholder in 1/2 turns.
 
The 458-452 reduction might be do-able but if you are trying to size fairly hard jacketed bullets it might need quite a grunt.

If its taking a lot of effort you might need a middle step. First size to 455 then to 452 for instance. If a person is trying to reduce diameter more than that it will almost certainly pay to do it in steps partly to reduce effort but also to reduce deformation.

For terminal preformance characteristics of hunting bullets there may be a limit to the amount you can squeeze them down before they no longer act the way you hope. This might be particularly true of bullets with more complex internal structure.
 
Research "centerless grinding" - an actual machining of the outside of the bullet to reduce diameter. I had a bunch of .338 Partitions reduced years back to use in an 8mm-06 before they were available in .323 dia. I have also swage with both an Orange Crusher & an RCBS Big Max (sadly no longer made) as well as a Redding Ultramag (best of the big single stage presses IMO)...
 
swagging

I up swage 9mm plated 138 gr to 40 cal .401 and with a little lube I don't even crack the plating. Have done over 10,000 with maybe 25 failures. Have also swagged 255 gr .454 down to .452 with no lube worked fine.

supermag
 
SUPERMAG said:
I up swage 9mm plated 138 gr to 40 cal .401 and with a little lube I don't even crack the plating. Have done over 10,000 with maybe 25 failures. Have also swagged 255 gr .454 down to .452 with no lube worked fine.

supermag
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I've swaged .454 down to .452 also. I used a handy little gadget known as the "rifled barrel". Works like a hot damn!:D
 
With a tapered hole cut in a bolt and a exact sized rod to pound on with a 4lb hammer, i got rem 405 gr 458 bullets to 444 and shot them out of a 43 Mauser. I wanted to shoot a moose with one but lost interest in it, it worked fine for hunting accuracy. Synthetic oil worked good as a lube.
 
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