Dual-use Precision/Hunting 308 Build: Action and stock selection

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mv2

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Hi all,

Looking to put together a dual-use 308 setup geared 80% towards target shooting, 20% towards hunting. My scope research (and help from Jerry @ Mystic Precision) leads me towards buying an Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 4-20 or Athlon Ares 3-18 for this setup. The action & chassis I want to keep under $2000 after tax, and under $1500 is even better, if possible.

At first I was thinking to jump into a factory T3x CTR and go from there, but it looks like many people end up swapping the stock for something nicer, and running AICS mags instead.

Here are some options I'm considering.
Full package that I wouldn't feel the need to customize further (used market):
- Bergara B-14 HMR 308
- Tikka T3x UPR 308

Custom package: barreled action (new or used market)
- Howa 1500 24" action, heavy barrel
- Howa 1500 20" action (I haven't seen these around, do they exist?)
- Weatherby Vanguard 20" heavy barrel (and dump the factory stock)
- Tikka T3x CTR barreled action (can I use cheaper T3x variants like the Lite / compact? I think only CTR and Varmint have the heavy barrel though...)
- Remington 700 20" SPS action (but I hear Howa may be a bit nicer)

Custom package: chassis/stock
- KRG Bravo
- MDT XRS

My idea was to reduce the rifle cost by going with the Vanguard / Howa 1500 action and put the extra $$ into the Ares 3-18 scope. Or increase budget for the Tikka action.

What route / approach would you guys take for a setup like this? Please share your thoughts.
 
Go Bergara. Price is right and you don't have to worry about anything from that rifle. It will shoot like a dream right out of the box and you don't have to change anything. Even if you want to change the stock later, it's a Remington 700 footprint and thus easy to find stocks for it.
 
Go with Tikka. Put it in a KRG Bravo chassis and use AICS mags.

Bergara has been making good rifles lately, but Tikka has the aftermarket support so you can upgrade your rifle as it grows with you.
 
Howa makes or made a 1500 in .308 with a 20” heavy barrel, much nicer than the run of the mill 700sps. Trigger is nicer out of the box as is the bolt/action on the Howa, something like the 700 tactical should be nicer/smoother or a 700 police or LTR would fit the bill. The LTR’s are pretty nice.

What ranges do you expect to hunt within, I had a 4-12 on a hunting rifle for a few years and found x4 to be a bit much if something popped out closer than 50y. 3 or 2 power at the low end is my go to while hunting, I like the higher mag when at the range.
 
Perhaps I will be grumpy - can not make "dual" purpose - will be half assed for either role - too many opposites between ideal for hunting rifle and ideal for target shooting rifle - priorities very different among the two disciplines - although you can "make do" with one in the other role. A very accurate 7 pound hunting rifle will not keep up with a 14 pound all out target rifle - and I would not want to be the one dragging the 14 pounder after a moose or deer. I suspect some amount of kidding oneself can convince you that there is a suitable "in between" type of rifle.
 
Potashminer said:
Perhaps I will be grumpy - can not make "dual" purpose - will be half assed for either role - too many opposites between ideal for hunting rifle and ideal for target shooting rifle - priorities very different among the two disciplines - although you can "make do" with one in the other role. A very accurate 7 pound hunting rifle will not keep up with a 14 pound all out target rifle - and I would not want to be the one dragging the 14 pounder after a moose or deer. I suspect some amount of kidding oneself can convince you that there is a suitable "in between" type of rifle.
Click to expand...

It's definitely not the most optimal way to go about it, but I can see how it can be a start for some people, especially with budgetary constraints.

Two rifles, with two optics and all the associated gear adds up. Especially if you have a penchant for the top tier stuff.

I recently made my match rifle do double duty as a hunting rifle. I chose to go this route as I knew I could get my match rifle down to a reasonable weight for hunting, and still maintain my top tier action, trigger and scope. All while saving thousands of dollars.

To do this I got a third barrel for my Mausingfield, an 18" 6.5 Creedmoor barrel in 3B contour. I swap the match barrel out for the hunting barrel, and my JAE chassis for a KRG Bravo, and my 21# match rifle goes to a 12# hunting rifle in a matter of a couple of minutes.

I would rather have two Mausingfields, one in a ~8lb configuration for hunting, but doing the above saves me a few thousand dollars. A few lbs is a concession I decided to make to save a few thousands.
 
I do believe that someone can use a hunting rifle to shoot AT targets, but I do not think the "run of the mill" store bought hunting rifle shows in many winner's circles for target competitions. But, I do not compete in target shooting, so I really do not know. Poster in Post #7 is using a $1599 action as per the website I just looked at - I do not know if that is $C or $US - but a pretty healthy chunk of coin for most people "starting out". Certainly in Western Canada every fall is many, many big game animals taken with rifles that - complete - cost far less than that. Is as if there is an attitude that by buying stuff you will magically become a "hunter" or a "sniper" or whatever - overlooking that it is the individual skill and mindset, of those people, that make them what they are - the rest of it does not really matter - they will be successful with about any tool. Of the ones that I know - the business of sneaking in without being observed, to be able to read the wind, or to follow tracks and know what has occurred and likely will occur, is far more important than the ability to place a shot - and at 100 meters, 300 meters or 600 meters, they most definitely can place a called, cold barrel shot, or they do not fire.
 
Potashminer said:
I do believe that someone can use a hunting rifle to shoot AT targets, but I do not think the "run of the mill" store bought hunting rifle shows in many winner's circles for target competitions. But, I do not compete in target shooting, so I really do not know. Poster in Post #7 is using a $1599 action as per the website I just looked at - I do not know if that is $C or $US - but a pretty healthy chunk of coin for most people "starting out". Certainly in Western Canada every fall is many, many big game animals taken with rifles that - complete - cost far less than that. Is as if there is an attitude that by buying stuff you will magically become a "hunter" or a "sniper" or whatever - overlooking that it is the individual skill and mindset, of those people, that make them what they are - the rest of it does not really matter - they will be successful with about any tool. Of the ones that I know - the business of sneaking in without being observed, to be able to read the wind, or to follow tracks and know what has occurred and likely will occur, is far more important than the ability to place a shot - and at 100 meters, 300 meters or 600 meters, they most definitely can place a called, cold barrel shot, or they do not fire.
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly concessions will have to be made if trying to use one rifle for two very different purposes.

I don't see why a person couldn't start with one rifle for two missions when starting off. From there they can grow into two rifles as the fiscal means comes and it becomes more desirable to do so.

If the budget is $2k, I can see the argument to getting one better rifle over two $1k rifles (and two optics, and two of everything else which adds up $$$).
 
kthomas said:
Undoubtedly concessions will have to be made if trying to use one rifle for two very different purposes.

I don't see why a person couldn't start with one rifle for two missions when starting off. From there they can grow into two rifles as the fiscal means comes and it becomes more desirable to do so.

If the budget is $2k, I can see the argument to getting one better rifle over two $1k rifles (and two optics, and two of everything else which adds up $$$).
Click to expand...



I would go Begerra or your choices.


Another option, like stated about because of not so optimal to have one rifle for both kinda thing.

1. You can add external weights to a chassis, and easily remove them for hunting. This will add stability at the range, and help recoil. A viable option, but you will be getting a compatible chassis to do this with.

2. You don't need to buy two of everything now a days. Get a good action, that is machined to accept pre fit barrels. Buy a range barrel, and a shorter, lighter hunting barrel. 5 min swap and your golden.



You can do this as long as you do your homework before hand, and find your scope offset from one barrel to the other. Then its a quick scope adjust, swap barrels and your good to go hunting. Same stock chassis, same action, trigger, scope, just different barrels.

I built my 6.5 CM that I use right now strictly as a range toy, with the intention to get a lighter hunting barrel this winter. I think I'm sitting around 16 lbs now the way it is currently set up. Will be scoped, ready to hunt in the 8 lb range. (this is mainly because of a bit heavier scope) Cadex action, XLR magnesium chassis with external weights, IBI pre fit 26" heavy stainless fluted barrel for range fun. Will be getting a carbon IBI barrel this winter and set it up for my son to use as a hunting rifle next fall. IBI uses a barrel nut, so it is a quick 5 min process to mount a barrel at home with only a go, no go gauge and a nut wrench. NO vise, no special action wrench required. You can set the headspace a bit tighter, as I have done than the sammi spec go gauge, and still use it fine.

My last range day I was approx 3" grouping for 5 shots at 500 m, so I know it is accurate, for something you put together at home.

This will be heavier on your budget, but you don't need both barrels right away, and can make do with one, that you would use right away and purchase the other later on. Either way, it will be a fun project.

Action: $1600, barrel: $1000+/- range, chassis: $1700, trigger: $400 then optics, magazines.
 
Updates based on comments so far:
- I would prefer to avoid barrel swaps at this stage (limited experience in general, less to think about)
- I've never done a chassis swap but if it's only 2 screws and a torque driver I should be fine
- Bergara is cheaper and simpler, I could avoid buying & swapping the chassis
- Howa, Bergara, Tikka all support KRG & MDT chassis options
- Howa 1500 action is the cheapest way to complete a build with a KRG or MDT chassis
- Hunting in northern ON, forests & close range, 3x low end preferred. Athlon Ares 3-18x is not cheap, hence trying to keep costs lower on the action & chassis. I would go for the Helos 2-12x on a hunting-focused build but 12-18x will get used a lot on the range.
- Hunting weight considerations: sore muscles preferred over the cost of a dedicated hunting rifle. I'm saying this with no hunting experience though.
- Target shooting would be under 500 yards most of the time. Hoping for an opportunity to shoot at a 1000 yard range some day.

Questions:
- Tikka sounds like it's got better aftermarket support, but what does this mean for a beginner? Is this for replacement parts, custom barrels?
- Howa vs. Tikka vs. Bergara accuracy? Is it going to make a noticeable difference for someone just getting started in long range? If optimizing for cost means a slightly rougher action, that's fine as long as it's still reliable.
 
I think the T3 CTR 308 20" is a great compromise when it comes to dual role or just a very accurate medium range deer rifle. I would not be so worried about the weight of a medium weight rifle, more worried about getting the deer back. My rucksack has the meat of a Sika deer that was shot on top of the hill. Hunt started on the other side of the hill. We don't have very long hunts, rather two three stints in a day.

utTT0rV.jpg


edi
 
Okay I think I provided some wrong information to the OP that caused some confusion. I did some double checking, and I'll try to clear it up.

Tikka: It's own proprietary footprint. It requires stocks and chassis' to have the Tikka inlet. Not a huge deal, as there are a lot of options available for Tikka these days, just not as much as an R700. Proprietary trigger - selection for aftermarket triggers is small. A bonus to the Tikka is that their tennon tolerances are kept so tight that prefit shouldered barrels can be made for them.

Bergara: R700 footprint. Takes all R700 inletted stocks and chassis'. Takes R700 triggers. Also takes R700 DBM and bases.

Howa: I believe these are proprietary footprint. So smallest aftermarket options for things such as stocks/chassis' and triggers.

I hope this clears up some confusion.

If it was me, I would go Tikka. There's enough aftermarket options that to upgrade it in a manner you would probably like. The stock action is great, and tolerances are kept tight enough that prefit shouldered barrels can be made for it. It's a great package to start off of.
 
The Tikka action has tight tolerances on the outside which allows stocks to be epoxy bedded with a slave action, meaning stocks can be purchased completely bedded with recoil lug fitted. Much simpler and easier than the remmy etc route if purchasing a stock because it removes the bedding issue.
edi
 
EJG said:
I think the T3 CTR 308 20" is a great compromise when it comes to dual role or just a very accurate medium range deer rifle. I would not be so worried about the weight of a medium weight rifle, more worried about getting the deer back. My rucksack has the meat of a Sika deer that was shot on top of the hill. Hunt started on the other side of the hill. We don't have very long hunts, rather two three stints in a day.

utTT0rV.jpg


edi
Click to expand...

Nice, can we get some better pics of the rifle?
 
Yea,

If you are talking 500m range for target practice and hopefully one day 1000m most any factory hunting rifles will do that now a days.

I would look in the 20"-22" barrel length for weight savings, and it will still shoot great out to your range on plinking days. To get longer strings at the range a heavy thick barrel is preferred, and with a stock hunting barrel it just means shorter 5 shot strings before cool down.

I was shooting a stock kimber Adirondack 7mm-08 out to 900m on a regular basis before I moved on to other rifles. That is a 5 lb rifle, super slim barrel profile at 18" long.


The tikka or begerra will just be a bit more refined rifles over the howa. Which one shoots better, well that is a great questions that is not easy to answer. If possible, get one of each upto your shoulder and go with the one that shoulders better. Better accuracy from any rifle that you shoulder comfortably without having to "work" at it.
 
I have coached lots of shooters that could not believe they could shoot to 500 meters , with everything from .223's to 300 Mags.
The biggest requirements are
A: A scope/ rail combination that will get out there.
Turrets and a 20 MOA rail on a reliable scope will do that.
B: A rifle that is comfortable and that fits the shooter

This has nothing to do with the stock type or barrel , as long as the eye relief is there and the length of pull and comb height is good.

C: A coach that knows how to put a trajectory chart together and can spot shooter issues.
Technically speaking , a rifle that is capable of shooting 2 MOA will still get onto a 2 foot steel plate at 500 Meters , and many rifles can do better than that .
The brand of rifle and scope is a non issue as long as the combination is repeatable .
That is the basic stuff, after that it can get as complicated as a person wants it to be .
Cat
 
Tikka CTR 6.5 PRC $1500
Zeiss Conquest V4 4-16x44 $1250

Will do everything you want, then some.
 
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