(edited title) Museum's inventory: Sten, Mk V.

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dauph197

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As I already told you, I'm far to be an expert of the WWI and WWII weapons. When I took that one, I thaught it was a joke... after some reading on Internet, I have to believe that it was a standard weapon issued during the end of the war.

What a strange idea for a submachine gun...

Sten Mk V. (Not a very productive day though with all these pictures...)



















 
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I like that; it's different and definitely far too cool for us to own and use if it was ever produced beyond a few test versions. I think I would prefer an angled pistol grip though, just to make it that much different from a traditional Sten.
Granted, I have never seen something like this before either (in terms of it's "modifications), so I have to thank you for sharing!
 
Made for the Para's. Just a regular STEN with a wood stock and spike bayonet lug. Predates Sterlings by several years.
QC on STENs was never high. Called a Plumber's Nightmare for a reason.
If you think it's odd, look at an Owen. Mag's on top. SMG's tended to be odd looking anyway.
 
The Sten Mk5 used as a control sample during the replacement trials which ended with adoption of the sterling, beat all of the submitted replacments.

The downfall of the sten is the double column single feed of the magazines (German MP28 pattern), but with good condition mags it's extremely reliable.

Most of the reputation of the sten is based on a batch of defective receivers and damaged or defective mags.

The last mags had no view hole on the back and are very good. The brits even f t r the mass where the filled the view holes with lead solder or brazing.
 
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sunray said:
Made for the Para's. Just a regular STEN with a wood stock and spike bayonet lug. Predates Sterlings by several years.
QC on STENs was never high. Called a Plumber's Nightmare for a reason.
If you think it's odd, look at an Owen. Mag's on top. SMG's tended to be odd looking anyway.
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Thanks sunray for stopping by and your input on the subject. Now that that's done we can actually talk about Stens. Folks, if you ever get the opportunity buy Laidlers book on this little SMG do so, you will not be sorry.
 
In some ways the Sten Mark V was a throwback to the Mark I, just with better quality control and a stronger frame.

The protected sight was an excellent idea; using the standard Number 4 sight protector just made double use of a part already in production.

Part of the problem with the Sten is that people don't understand the fire doctrine. It was not designed to be used in John Wayne Gung-Ho! fashion. As with any British firearm, it was designed mainly to be used from a PRONE position, taking advantage of whatever COVER happened to be handy. The German MP-40 LOOKS ###y as hell, but just TRY firing one when you are flat on your belly like a reptile, trying to NOT get zapped by that friendly neighbourhood '42 which has just taken out the rest of your section.

Only thing really WRONG with the Sten is that the poor thing is UGLY.

But sometimes UGLY can be BEAUTIFUL, too, especially when your life depends on it WORKING.

BTW, most Sten mags can be slicked-up with a bit of 600-grit followed by Crocus Cloth on the inside-bottom of the feed-lips.
 
Really like your input Smellie.

I remember having a chat with a veteran, at the local Legion, few years ago, the old man passed away since the last I met. He told a story that I can confirm if it was true or false. The troops had developed a strange tactic during the Italian campaign. When they were able to locate Germans hiding in a house at night, they were crawling under the window and they were throwing inside their SMG fully loaded and the gun was firing all over place. Sometimes killing the Germans sometimes not but it was a 100% success surprise attack. Then they were raiding the place without almost any losses.

So you are right, ugly things can be very charming when seen from another point of view.

Thanks again.

Martin
 
dauph197 said:
Really like your input Smellie.

I remember having a chat with a veteran, at the local Legion, few years ago, the old man passed away since the last I met. He told a story that I can confirm if it was true or false. The troops had developed a strange tactic during the Italian campaign. When they were able to locate Germans hiding in a house at night, they were crawling under the window and they were throwing inside their SMG fully loaded and the gun was firing all over place. Sometimes killing the Germans sometimes not but it was a 100% success surprise attack. Then they were raiding the place without almost any losses.

So you are right, ugly things can be very charming when seen from another point of view.

Thanks again.

Martin
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Sorry to burst your bubble but the "throw the Sten in the window and it will go on a wild killing spree all by itself" is a battlefield myth. Sounds more like a old vet at the legion spinning a yarn after a few beverages. Now throwing in a grenade or two is a totally different game.
 
Don't worry XRDC011, you are not bursting my bubble. I was skeptical since the very beginning of his story but frankly, it was really amusing to hear these men telling ''their'' stories. Great pieces of military folklore. I still prefer them than the ones from Afghanistan where I went three times.

And be honest... it is a nice story to tell. Carrying a SMG to throw it somewhere and having all the enemies killed. I like it... ;-)

Martin
 
Fact is that if you TIE THE TRIGGER BACK first and then toss the gun in such a fashion that it lands on its BUTT......

..... the Bolt CAN retract far enough to pick up a round.......

..... and then it will run FORWARD........

.... and we all know what happens THEN.

It is highly unlikely, but I have heard it from too many combat vets to discount the tale entirely.

Something to try: put a dummy round in the mag and insert the mag into the uncocked gun. Now, holding the gun by the Barrel Jacket, slam the gun down on your couch, butt first. Watch what happens..... and then come back and tell me it isn't possible.

A Sten is ONLY safe when the Bolt is LOCKED FORWARD.
 
^ Not to take anything away from the old vets or disrespect them in any way, shape or form, but a myth is still a myth.
 
smellie said:
Fact is that if you TIE THE TRIGGER BACK first and then toss the gun in such a fashion that it lands on its BUTT......

..... the Bolt CAN retract far enough to pick up a round.......

..... and then it will run FORWARD........

.... and we all know what happens THEN.

It is highly unlikely, but I have heard it from too many combat vets to discount the tale entirely.

Something to try: put a dummy round in the mag and insert the mag into the uncocked gun. Now, holding the gun by the Barrel Jacket, slam the gun down on your couch, butt first. Watch what happens..... and then come back and tell me it isn't possible.

A Sten is ONLY safe when the Bolt is LOCKED FORWARD.
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Yes any open bolt gun can fire a single shot if the bolt travels back far enough to catch the round from the mag, yet not far enough to catch the sear.

That is why the sten has the bolt handle lock and the MP40 has a bolt catch as well.
 
Lee Enfield said:
Yes any open bolt gun can fire a single shot if the bolt travels back far enough to catch the round from the mag, yet not far enough to catch the sear.

That is why the sten has the bolt handle lock and the MP40 has a bolt catch as well.
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all the kit in the world cant solve human error entirely, during the flq crisis i think a canadian soldier shot himself with a sterling. the bolt was closed with a mag in and the safety off, he jumped off the back of a truck with the weapon slung and when he landed the bolt grabbed a round and got him in the back of the head. properly used that wouldnt happen with the sterling, if the safety was on or the mag out it wouldnt have happened
 
Ya, I was always sceptical about that claim...heard it SOOOOO many times...and I believe it less and less over the years. Ejection port could not be blocked by the floor or the brass won't eject, causing a stoppage. And the cocking handle can't get hung up on a rug, floorboard or floor mat, or it stops.

But think about this: even if that works, and the rooms walls keep the 9mm 8n the room and not threaten your own friendlies just outside the room....what will the enemy get hit? Well...the soles of his boots. Probably a toe. Maybe an ankle. None of them would die from such a move, no leg wounds, no torso...now you still gotta clear that room!

Is it plausible a STEN might go like that? Sure I guess...someone no doubt tried it in WW2 by accident, AND on purpose. But would that have been combat effective tactic for room clearing? NO NO NO NO. Sorry. I just never bought that story.
 
Why oh why do people continue calling the Canadian C1 SMG a "Sterling" yes its based on the British L2 "Sterling" but the true Canadian nomenclature is......C1 SMG, heck it even says that on the gun itself.
 
XRCD011 said:
Why oh why do people continue calling the Canadian C1 SMG a "Sterling" yes its based on the British L2 "Sterling" but the true Canadian nomenclature is......C1 SMG, heck it even says that on the gun itself.
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if the shoe fits...

i figure if the parts or sub assemblies all interchange, its a sterling, maybe not a sterling L2A3 but still a sterling
 
^ Here is the thing, we as a group into old Milsurps generally like getting every detail, nut, bolt and fitting 100%, or as close to correct as possible. The gun (C1 SMG) was all Canadian made and unique to Canada, sort of like the Diemaco C7-8s for sale now which we do not call "M16" or "M4s". Folks can feel free to call it (wrongly) whatever they wish but the Canadian made C1 SMG is what it is and not a Sterling.
 
XRCD011 said:
Why oh why do people continue calling the Canadian C1 SMG a "Sterling" yes its based on the British L2 "Sterling" but the true Canadian nomenclature is......C1 SMG, heck it even says that on the gun itself.
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The C1 SMG is a license manufactured sterling with Canadian changes for production purposes. This is why Canada paid Sterling license fees for the use of the design.

The British assigned nomenclature is L2A4 for the C1 SMG which is a Sterling with a Ruffal trigger mech and C1/L1 bayonet instead of the Lee Enfield No5 bayonet.

All assemblies are directly replaceable between the 2 guns except the sights.

Just the same as a C7/C8 is a license manufactured M16 variant with Canadian specific design changes.
 
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