Sorry guys...My tech guy is in the midfle of a move, and also I was busy yeserday and today...I have sent the raw data to him to try and sort through. Hopefully we will have it up shortly!
Thanks for your patience!
EESA Zombie Apocalypse 2012 Multigun (Update Post 31)
- Thread starter 7.62mm
- Start date
Sorry guys...My tech guy is in the midfle of a move, and also I was busy yeserday and today...I have sent the raw data to him to try and sort through. Hopefully we will have it up shortly!
Thanks for your patience!
Oh I'll be practicing...
It was just a suggestion to keep as many people from timing out. Sheesh.
Given that FNH is one of the big US matches, you know it's going to be tougher than hell from the get go. Would you say that FNH is newbie friendly though? Absolutely not, and everyone knows it isn't. Newbies know not to sign up. Some of the big matches are doing the Pro/Am thing in order to make the matches more accessible to less experienced shooters.
Again, I'm not #####ing, I am merely suggesting. I expected to do poorly and was not surprised when that was what happened. I'm just trying to help suggest things that would help with making the match more attractive to new shooters, which I feel I'm representative of. If that feedback is taken under advisement and that's it, that's entirely fine. You in particular are not taking my feedback in the spirit with which it was given though. The kind of attitude you're taking in response is the type of thing which is going to discourage new people from getting involved.
Doable... by who? Therein lies the problem. If one guy can do it, does that make it doable? What's a challenge for one person can be impossible for another. There's a balance, usually.
I never said it was unfair. I merely suggested that making some small changes would help encourage the new shooters more. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?
I give up. I'm trying to help but apparently constructive criticism means you are a whiner.
When I've MD'ed my own local matches or designed stages, I go out of my way to ask the shooters what they like and don't like, etc. I welcome the feedback so that I can learn. I think Craig has taken my feedback in the spirit it was given so I would like to leave it at that.
stormbringer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S.W. Ontario
Psst..............EESA membership is CHEAP!
Not neccessarily "tougher than hell".
I respectfully suggest you don't know what you're talking about
Having shot it I'd say yes... It's very newbie friendly. Everyone helps and supports the new shooters at these matches.
So explaine the respectible number of people I hear at these shoots who say... "This is my first match".
I don't think that was the reasoning behind the ProAm concept... Not entirely anyway...
At last months AR15.com ProAm there were experienced shooters on the Am side and not so experienced takin' a chance on the Pro side...
The matches ARE attracive... Some people just need to get some confidence and go shoot without caring what everyone else might think of their performance.
Simple, easy to shoot matches are fine I suppose, but y'know... As a MD that gets kinda boring. I feel I've done my fair share of hand holding... It's time shooters man the f*** up and just come shoot.
I don't think new shooters need to be encouraged... If they're motivated they'll come out. If they're scared they won't.
Take it a step further and ask them what score they'd like too...
I'm just bustin' yer balls man... But hey, if we can't speak freely what's the point of all this chatter.
Oh... and one last point.
Rifle shots should be looooonnnnng... and at small targets too.
That's what rifle are for.
If you want to shoot big targets up close go shoot that CQB nonsense*
*No offense indended towards those who enjoy shooting with a RIFLE at a man size target from inside 50m
But the club prez is a jerk.
Saw you but didn't get to say hi before you left.
See you on VA in two weeks?
Mechanik, I totally understand what you are saying and the spirit in which you are saying it, as I'm sure everyone involved with running this match is.
The flipside is what 7.62 and Onagoth are saying, and that is there are two ways to approach the aftermath of these matches.
1) Say its too hard, be discouraged, and do little about it in which case that shooter will likely not come to any more events.
2) Get motivated to learn and master the skills required to be more competitive at matches such as these.
Last year was the first year I actively competed in 3 gun, and FNH was my first major match in the US.
Prior to that I shot a small match in Michigan, and before that was the IPSC multigun grand tournament, or whatever it was called, that EESA put on where they had individual rifle and shotgun matches.
That's it.
Hell, the first time I held I handgun was at the end of 2009.
In the beginning I sucked (and arguably still do) but I took approach number 2 above and spent the time necessary to learn how to reload the shotgun quickly, and learn the techniques necessary to make reasonably accurate shots with my rifle, using both irons and scope.
I'm happy with my progress but still have a long way to go as I get my ass handed to me when I go to the states and compete against the best in the game.
But I keep going back as I'm motivated to improve and see how much I can close the gap between me and the top shooters. (its a biiiig gap)
I mean no disrespect but there really is no reason why a 200yrd shot on a 8 to 10 inch plate isn't doable.
It may take 2 or 3 attempts, but its very doable.
Even if you do not have a 200 yrd range to practice on, pretty much any range has 100yrds.
What is the drop on a .223 round between 100 and 200?
2 inches? 3 at the high end if you are shooting a short barrel AR?
Aim accordingly using your known zero and your rounds should hit metal.
Now if your AR is only capable of 3-4" groups at 100, then your equipment could use a bit of an upgrade because there is a good chance you are missing even if your technique was good.
If you can't hold steady from some of the unorthodox shooting positions 3 gun challenges you with, some instruction wouldn't hurt.
I know both EESA and Team Hoser have put on skills/3gun intro courses, and likely will do so again.
Bottom line is we all took something away from the match that we can improve on to come back stronger the next time.
Whether we make the effort to improve is up to us, and our future scores will reflect it.
We all started somewhere.
Runningfool
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I respectfully suggest you don't know what you're talking about
Having shot it I'd say yes... It's very newbie friendly. Everyone helps and supports the new shooters at these matches.
Ok, I'll stand corrected on that then. I've never been, and you have. My perception (right or wrong) is that the US matches in general are tough, and that it's going to be years before I feel confident enough to go and still make a fool out of myself
I watch the TV footage and I know I'm not ready for most of those matches yet.Well, I can tell you that timing out is pretty discouraging. When that par time beeps, it's like someone holding up a big blinking red sign that says FAIL. I think the goal of the par time should be to keep the match moving, not to differentiate good shooters from bad shooters. I think the stage should be designed so that a high proportion of people won't time out. The par times have to be there, no doubt about it, or the match will drag for eternity. Someone will always time out, that is unavoidable, but I think we can probably agree it's nicer if most people get a chance to shoot at all the targets. Anyway...
Take it a step further and ask them what score they'd like too...
HA...
Yeah I know... no worries, I don't take offense at that. I expect it
I could hit that. Autopoppers are smaller than that... 4" at the widest point. At rest, taking my time, I can hit that probably. After shooting a bunch of targets, blood and adrenaline pumping (with my ####ty cardio)... not so much. I hope to eventually get to the point where I can, but I ain't there yet.
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
Hey I was using a bolt gun, Craig give me some bonus points!
I would say that more than 80% of the people were able to finish all the stages without timing out. So, say we added 1 min to the par time....over the couse of the match those 10 people needing that extea minute adds at minimum, 1 hour to the match. As it was, there was one stage at the start in the morning that had 4 reshoots....that added an hour to the day at the end.
I also wasn't willing to remove anymore from the stages, than I already had, in order to make it run faster. I wanted the vast majority to get their $50 worth....you may not realise this, but this stuff is thought of before a match....this isn't our first time at doing one of these!
I also wasn't willing to remove anymore from the stages, than I already had, in order to make it run faster. I wanted the vast majority to get their $50 worth....you may not realise this, but this stuff is thought of before a match....this isn't our first time at doing one of these!
I agree that timing out can be discouraging.
We all have a preconceived notion of what we are able to do, and when things don't exactly go as planned, it doesn't sit well.
But then that is part of the game.
To be competitive you have to have plan B and C ready to go when A falls apart.
On the stage with the 200yrd poppers, one of the best times posted was accomplished by taking one shot at each of the 200yrd poppers and then moving on.
He didn't hit them and took a 5 second penalty.
Cost benefit analysis time.... you can spend 15-20 seconds each target trying to hit something that is currently out of one's comfort zone, or you can spend 2 seconds to take the shot, incur a 5 second penalty and move on to ensure you engage all targets on the stage.
Right there, 14 seconds for engage and miss vs 40+ sec for engage till I hit it.
Stage management is key in any competitive shooting sport.
Craig mentioned this at the shooter's meeting and gave everyone a hint as to how to approach some of the stages.
With experience you learn how to game the stages and which targets are worth spending time on, and which are time traps.
That's how you differentiate yourself from the rest of the pack.
Just my $.02
I think I have this whole thing figured out. As a result of a myocardial infarction (a heart attack) some years back, I carry a nitro spray with me all the time. Just before the buzzer, if I take a shot of nitro, it will open all the blood vessels and slow my heart down. That should steady me a bit and just maybe I might be able to hit those tiny little popper hiding just out of range of these old eyes!
Would that be considered doping? Will the IOC ban me for life? Will I have to give up all my gold metals from the past? Will I loose my sponsorship from Nike?
Don't really care, I shoot for fun!
Would that be considered doping? Will the IOC ban me for life? Will I have to give up all my gold metals from the past? Will I loose my sponsorship from Nike?
Don't really care, I shoot for fun!
Hey I was using a bolt gun, Craig give me some bonus points!
Exactly!
Could probably finished most of the courses of fire with a bolt gun, double barrel and revolver.
Maybe should have a Silly Bugger division next year! Muskets...blunderbusts and pistolas!
It appears to be a good thing Craig did not have time to make the coil spring shooting platform that we rounded up the materials for... We should have it for next years match though and I already have the slim sammie's that are half the size of the ones we used this year for the 200y shots, they will be a hoot to shoot from the platform...
Finally something to challange Pauls....
Finally something to challange Pauls....
