Effectiveness of .308

Dosing said:
250-300yds, which beats a 30-30 (sorry)
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Hmmm. lets see, 308 loaded with spire points or boattail spirepoints at 50 to 60,000 CUP, in a bolt gun, Vs 30-30 loaded with flat points at 40,000 CUP in a lever gun. Well GEEEE I can see your point.

But, lets have some fun shall we. Even the odds a bit. :twisted:

Lets put 30-30 in a bolt gun, (or single load in a lever gun with a 24" barrel) and use the same bullets, and see how close we can come.

30-30 load data
34 grains of H4895 under a 165 boatail spire point gives 2400fps in a 24" barrel. (source Sam Fadala, he quotes Lyman, and under max)
That bullet will still be a bit over 2000fps at 200 yards with a bit over 1500lbs remaining energy.

Now it is true that a 308 can be loaded to as much as 300fps higher with the same bullet. But, Id hardly call that blowing the old 30-30 away :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

It is true however that that 30-30 load shades the 243 pretty well.
 
Now slightly increase the powder capacity of the old dirty thirty by ackley improving it in that old bolt action, and the old dirty thirty is nipping on the 308's heels methinks :wink:
and still shoots the cheap crappy tire boxes of ammo too :wink:

I like em both though, but just got rid of my dads old 308 :cry: :wink:
 
It's true that the 30/30 AI can be handloaded to get close to thhe .308, but don't forget, that the case is designed for lower pressures, and trying to chase 308 velocities is not a wise thing becuase of the higher pressures specs of the .308.
That being said, if i had a chhance to get a 30/30 in a Ruger no.3 , or a Browning 1885, or a Winchester 54, I would likely snap up the chance!


Cat
 
Crashman said:
I am a huge fan of the 308 Winchester, I would pick it before any other caliber for a big game cartridge. However, Marine snipers have a lot of training and fancy equipment to help them with their shots. Most hunters don't have that training or the equipment to help them estimate yardage and hold the rifle steady, or have the time to watch their intended target and wait for the perfect shot. Most shots at game are taken in a short period of time with a lot of adrenilin pumping through the veins. So for this reason, I think most ethical hunters realize their limitations and keep their shots within this range.

I am not making any comments what so ever about anyone's ethics, I am just pointing some of the reasons you hear the 300 yard limit quite often when talking about shooting at big game.
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Hmm... yeah, I guess Marine snipers shooting at real people don;t have to deal with adrenaline, short target exposure time and even moving people since all arab insurgents are known for sitting still all the time. Good point.

In any event, I'm not saying uncle Bob who shoots twice a year should attempt a 1000 yard kill shot on a deer's neck. What I am saying is that if the shooter is skillful enough and capable of consistently placing shots within a 12" circle at 500 yards under hunting conditions then there's no reason in my mind that he/she should not ethically do so in the field with a good .308 hunting load. This is the same arguement I always hear from "know-it-alls" at the range during sight-in season when they haul out their beat to #### never ever been cleaned sewer pipe .30-30's and fire three practice shots offhand at 75 yards and if they hit a 4'x4' piece of cardboard with every shot they're good to go for another year :roll:

If you can;t shoot for #### then don't dump on people who can by telling them the sky is red, water runs up hill, and the factory .308 loadings can't kill past 300 yards :shock:
 
John Y Cannuck said:
Dosing said:
250-300yds, which beats a 30-30 (sorry)
Click to expand...

Hmmm. lets see, 308 loaded with spire points or boattail spirepoints at 50 to 60,000 CUP, in a bolt gun, Vs 30-30 loaded with flat points at 40,000 CUP in a lever gun. Well GEEEE I can see your point.

But, lets have some fun shall we. Even the odds a bit. :twisted:

Lets put 30-30 in a bolt gun, (or single load in a lever gun with a 24" barrel) and use the same bullets, and see how close we can come.

30-30 load data
34 grains of H4895 under a 165 boatail spire point gives 2400fps in a 24" barrel. (source Sam Fadala, he quotes Lyman, and under max)
That bullet will still be a bit over 2000fps at 200 yards with a bit over 1500lbs remaining energy.

Now it is true that a 308 can be loaded to as much as 300fps higher with the same bullet. But, Id hardly call that blowing the old 30-30 away :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

It is true however that that 30-30 load shades the 243 pretty well.
Click to expand...

So what you;re saying is that a very hot loaded .30-30 through a bolt gun can almost equal the factory .308 and that's comparing apples to apples? What? :?

Here's how I see apples to apples: how does a hot loaded .30-30AI in a bolt gun compare to a hot loaded .308AI in a bolt gun? I'm guessing the .308AI still comes out well ahead. That's apples to apples my friend.

Anyhow, I didn;t say the .30-30 was a garbage round, only that the .308 is a more powerful round if you compare factory ammo to factory ammo. Why is that so hard for everyone to believe? What has everyone got against .308 Winchester?
 
Well, I'll tel ya what everyone has against it , Caven!
According to John Wooters as well, it is boring, anything but ###y, mundane as vanilla icecream and takes absolutely no effort to make it work wonders in a handload!
In other words, it just plain works.

No fun at all for some of the whiz-bang -I got a magnum types that need a zillion FPS and a crazy type of off-beat case to be happy.


Me?
I love the .308. I also have a few of the whiz-bang screaming glochenspiel wildcats! :D

Cat
 
TheCanuck said:
because remington doesnt make a 700p in 30-06
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They don't make it in a 30" bbl either.

What do you plan to do with your rifle: hunt, target shoot, a bit of both?
If you really like the 700P but are hesitating on the caliber, get the one in 300RUM. $959 at Wholesale Sports.

Pretty much all of the game that I've shot (with the exception of a few long shots on deer in Sask.) could have easily been taken with a 308.
 
Claven2 said:
John Y Cannuck said:
Dosing said:
250-300yds, which beats a 30-30 (sorry)
Click to expand...

Hmmm. lets see, 308 loaded with spire points or boattail spirepoints at 50 to 60,000 CUP, in a bolt gun, Vs 30-30 loaded with flat points at 40,000 CUP in a lever gun. Well GEEEE I can see your point.

But, lets have some fun shall we. Even the odds a bit. :twisted:

Lets put 30-30 in a bolt gun, (or single load in a lever gun with a 24" barrel) and use the same bullets, and see how close we can come.

30-30 load data
34 grains of H4895 under a 165 boatail spire point gives 2400fps in a 24" barrel. (source Sam Fadala, he quotes Lyman, and under max)
That bullet will still be a bit over 2000fps at 200 yards with a bit over 1500lbs remaining energy.

Now it is true that a 308 can be loaded to as much as 300fps higher with the same bullet. But, Id hardly call that blowing the old 30-30 away :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

It is true however that that 30-30 load shades the 243 pretty well.
Click to expand...

So what you;re saying is that a very hot loaded .30-30 through a bolt gun can almost equal the factory .308 and that's comparing apples to apples? What? :?

Here's how I see apples to apples: how does a hot loaded .30-30AI in a bolt gun compare to a hot loaded .308AI in a bolt gun? I'm guessing the .308AI still comes out well ahead. That's apples to apples my friend.

Anyhow, I didn;t say the .30-30 was a garbage round, only that the .308 is a more powerful round if you compare factory ammo to factory ammo. Why is that so hard for everyone to believe? What has everyone got against .308 Winchester?
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My load quoted is under max, and is in the standard case.
Please re-read my post. Where exactly did I mention the AI?
In fact the test rifle was a 24" barrel Model '94 Winchester.
 
As far as punching right on through a yote,I see nothing wrong with this!!!

I want all my bullets to punch right on through anything I shoot!!!

I want to place my shot so that it punches through bones and finds it's way through the vitals and then on out the skin and hide!

over kill is a much over used word!

Of course I would not use Mil-surp FMJ! JSP would be enough or hard cast bullets!!

More people get hurt useing big bore guns with quickly opening jacketed bullets that don't penetrate than small bore rifles that only come with limited rounds!

Say a .308 180 grain SP/core loc verses a .375 Win 200 grain light skined game load!!!

The .375 Win with a 223 sp/spitzer round and the right powder would be right,but the .308 is equal to the 06 with out any fine tunning!!!

I don't think anybody will find too much fault with the .308 win!!!


Bob :p
 
They don't make it in a 30" bbl either.
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i know that but i intend to rebarrel it in like 12-18 months, and put it on a mcmillan stock too.

a bit of both, actually, alot of paper punching and some hunting. Deer, moose, 'bou, black bear. I'll try a Québec grandslam next year.

Also, i'm not sure ill be able to shoot magnum calibers at the st-bruno range, so thats why i chose .308
 
i got to see a moose shot with a 308 at 370yds 180 grainer i believe....it walk/stumbled/hippity hopped for about 3 seconds then fell on his big fat rubbernose! :lol: I garuantee he didn't know the diffference between that and being shot at 100 yards! That calibre will perform as well as you can make it IMHO

Chris
 
willyqbc said:
i got to see a moose shot with a 308 at 370yds 180 grainer i believe....it walk/stumbled/hippity hopped for about 3 seconds then fell on his big fat rubbernose! :lol: I garuantee he didn't know the diffference between that and being shot at 100 yards! That calibre will perform as well as you can make it IMHO

Chris
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:D

good, cause i intend to practice ALOT.
 
308s HE 180gr NP loaded by Federal. The best so far. 2740fps
150gr SST loaded by Hornady - over 3000fps

don't see any close thing to any hot loaded 30-30, but, maybe is just me.
 
smellofspentcasings said:
If you hit a deer at 1000 yards with a .308 it would walk away with a little lead in it and thats about it.
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if you hit one in the vitals it would terminally absorb a bullet going 1200 fps and die quite fast...
 
Been hunting with a .308 since 1964, when my dad gave me my first gun. Both of my two sons started hunting with a .308. We've brought down deer, bear, elk, moose, hogs and miscellaneous smaller animals at ranges from 15 to 275 yards without any difficulty whatsoever, using 150-, 165-, and 180-gr. bullets of various types. One of the nice things about the .308 (and .30-06, too) is that almost all .30 calibre bullets were designed with their velocity range in mind; hence, you almost always get good bullet performance with just about any bullet. We use the 150's for deer and such, and the 165's and 180's for larger animals, although lately I've been thinking that a 150-gr. TSX would do it for all. We also have .270's and .30-06's and have satisfactory things to say about them, but the .308 guns are a bit trimmer than the 06's and give pretty much the same performance, and the .308's heavier bullets give me more confidence when shooting elk, moose, and bears than the .270's do.
 
What Crashman said... 8)
Buying an entry level sniper rifle is not going to make you a better Hunter or allow you to shoot well at long range.
.308 cal's make great long range target rifles... and for hunting it is a great short action cartridge that is proven in the field.
Do many serious or professional hunters choose one for long range hunting.... NO :!: :idea:
 
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