Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Effectiveness of 9mm used by Contractors in Iraq
- Thread starter Dr van Nostran
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that is verging on disgusting.
If that is what makes those yank bastards proud of thier sons then good luck and gods speed on there trips to valhalla.
There are more combat vets/police action/Peace Keepers in my family then in most, iam proud of what they have done for Canada. Not one of them has ever bragged about taking the life of another human. It is one thing to fight the SS in Caens another to do what those jerks are doing as mercenaries.
Between nationals in thier own country and mercenaries I know who I am rooting for.
Always supporting Canadian Forces Personnel in all and every mission at home and Abroad, but disgusted with that article.
If that is what makes those yank bastards proud of thier sons then good luck and gods speed on there trips to valhalla.
There are more combat vets/police action/Peace Keepers in my family then in most, iam proud of what they have done for Canada. Not one of them has ever bragged about taking the life of another human. It is one thing to fight the SS in Caens another to do what those jerks are doing as mercenaries.
Between nationals in thier own country and mercenaries I know who I am rooting for.
Always supporting Canadian Forces Personnel in all and every mission at home and Abroad, but disgusted with that article.
David, I didn;t see anywhere in that article where the PMC is bragging about confirmed kills or anything. I found the article to be rather "matter of fact".
In terms of PMCs from an ethical standpoint, a soldier in Iraq makes, on average, $1700US a month and gets taxed on that. a PMC doing the same work for Haliburton makes almost $35,000 a month! :shock:
It's not hard to see why so many Army guys join the merc ranks after their tours. They do the same job, support the same cause, only they are protecting the civilian supply columns instead of the military ones and being much better compensated, supplied and equipped to do so.
Never forget, it is the Iraqi government who requests and gets these civilian companies to come in and help rebuilt their infrastructure and it is that same gov't that advocates using PMCs b/c the Iraqi national guard is not yet up to the task.
Not saying I support it, but want to make sure you understand the issue.
In terms of PMCs from an ethical standpoint, a soldier in Iraq makes, on average, $1700US a month and gets taxed on that. a PMC doing the same work for Haliburton makes almost $35,000 a month! :shock:
It's not hard to see why so many Army guys join the merc ranks after their tours. They do the same job, support the same cause, only they are protecting the civilian supply columns instead of the military ones and being much better compensated, supplied and equipped to do so.
Never forget, it is the Iraqi government who requests and gets these civilian companies to come in and help rebuilt their infrastructure and it is that same gov't that advocates using PMCs b/c the Iraqi national guard is not yet up to the task.
Not saying I support it, but want to make sure you understand the issue.
Re: that is verging on disgusting.
Easy on the anti-yank setiment. Your ignorance is showing, you misread that article and really are an ignorant fool. You know little to nothing about the security organizations that are working over there, filling a gap in the system. I thought the rules of the forum states that you will not be allowed to personally attack anyone based on ethniticity, race, religion etc etc, you have attacked me, a Yank or half yank residing in Canada.
I agree that this is a real-life so to speak article of 9mm in combat situations, showing effectiveness of it, the importance of shot placement vs. actual caliber. We phased out the .45s in the Marines when I joined and most of the pistol work we used M9 (Beretta 92F) and MEUSOC .45s.
david doyle said:
Easy on the anti-yank setiment. Your ignorance is showing, you misread that article and really are an ignorant fool. You know little to nothing about the security organizations that are working over there, filling a gap in the system. I thought the rules of the forum states that you will not be allowed to personally attack anyone based on ethniticity, race, religion etc etc, you have attacked me, a Yank or half yank residing in Canada.
I agree that this is a real-life so to speak article of 9mm in combat situations, showing effectiveness of it, the importance of shot placement vs. actual caliber. We phased out the .45s in the Marines when I joined and most of the pistol work we used M9 (Beretta 92F) and MEUSOC .45s.
You are rooting for murderous terrorists trying to overthrow a legitimate (well almost anyway) government trying to bring peace and prosperity to a country vs the people hired to keep the peace?
There is something seriously wrong with you. :shock: :roll:
geesh
Thanks Claven2 well thought out and well taken. best regards to you.
everyone else:I think my original post said I support canadian soldiers. It did not say Iam supporting terrorists! You have made an assumption. Not liking men who kill for money is not exactly ignorant or inflamatory. I am equally opposed to anyone killing for ALAH or whatever. And hey if calling someone a yank jerk is not allowed then I am sure insulting some one based on thier level of intelligence is a no no as well (re, ignorant statement)
Any way probaley time for the mods to shut her down. If any of you who have posted decide to do the right thing and sign up for the "security forces" to protect those vital civilian supply lines send me a post card and tell me how much fun you are having with your comparitive ballistics
Thanks Claven2 well thought out and well taken. best regards to you.
everyone else:I think my original post said I support canadian soldiers. It did not say Iam supporting terrorists! You have made an assumption. Not liking men who kill for money is not exactly ignorant or inflamatory. I am equally opposed to anyone killing for ALAH or whatever. And hey if calling someone a yank jerk is not allowed then I am sure insulting some one based on thier level of intelligence is a no no as well (re, ignorant statement)
Any way probaley time for the mods to shut her down. If any of you who have posted decide to do the right thing and sign up for the "security forces" to protect those vital civilian supply lines send me a post card and tell me how much fun you are having with your comparitive ballistics
Suputin said:
Murderous terrorist? What would you be if your wife and kids got shot at a roadblock because you dont speak the invaders language?
Sadam knew how to keep the peace with these dirty Islamic nutjobs. He killed them all and put them in there place.
Bring back Sadam!
Easy on the melodrama. Most of the "insurgents" fighting in Iraq are either foreign fighters or religious fanatics, not people who lost their families in tragic accidents. Though I agree that a thing or two could be learned from Saddam when it comes to dealing with islamic radicals. Maybe they could hire him as a consultant...Scarecrow said:
I simply cannot support the use of illegal combattants (and I do see <most> PMC's as such), whichever side happens to be the highest bidder at any given time is irrelevant to me.
Bottom line (for me) is these guys, like their foe, act in total disregard for human life, wether they are driven by religious beliefs, the thirst for adventure, or the lure or the all mighty greenback, does not make their presence any more palatable to this civilian. I do believe that there is credibility to be gained by having, and stricktly adhering to, the moral high ground, as dictated by the international laws that regulate armed conflicts.
Bottom line (for me) is these guys, like their foe, act in total disregard for human life, wether they are driven by religious beliefs, the thirst for adventure, or the lure or the all mighty greenback, does not make their presence any more palatable to this civilian. I do believe that there is credibility to be gained by having, and stricktly adhering to, the moral high ground, as dictated by the international laws that regulate armed conflicts.
Illegal combatatants? These people are not paid to fight a war. They are private security agents who do essentially the same kind of work that companies like Securicore do here. The only difference is that they work in a much more dangerous and volatile region, are far more likely to die on the job, and as a consequence get paid more. Personally, I don't see a moral dilemma here. Would you rather leave the private industry completely unprotected (as there’s not enough marines to baby seat everyone) and give the "insurgents" complete freedom to run around and chop people’s heads off?RobSmith said:
capp325 said:
Not at all, PMC's that are legitimately involved in such activities as human and physical asset protection of the few civilian entities that can afford their services are not those that I'm referring to (activities compatible with the types of work that securicor and other private security companies would be involved here in Canada).
However, active participation in the current armed conflict, such as providing security for military assets (military base security, military convoy escort etc...), training Iraqi military personnel (as opposed to civilian law enforcement personnel), "bountyhunting" types of activities etc.. In my mind are applications which are incompatible with their "civilian" status. Any PMCs that become involved in "military" activities become belligerants in an armed conflict, and since they are not "recognised" belligerants in the current conflict (They neither wear the uniform, nor represent any of Allied nation currently engaged in Iraq, nor are they members of the Iraqi military), at least some of the PMCs present in Iraq may be classified as illegal combattants.
Illegal, in contravention to which law? As far as I know, neither Iraq nor the U.S. have laws prohibiting the government from hiring private contractors/mercenaries. And I'm pretty sure that neither country signed any international treaties that would restrict them from doing so. Please correct me if I'm wrong.RobSmith said:
Dr van Nostran
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, B.C.
I wonder what would happen if I posted an article on the effectiveness of a dirty, uncleaned AK in the hands of an "Insurgent" ? :shock:
Come on, this is supposed to feed the eternal 9mm vs everything else debate in terms of the experience of a current conflict.
We need politics in the pistol forum ? :shock:
Come on, this is supposed to feed the eternal 9mm vs everything else debate in terms of the experience of a current conflict.
We need politics in the pistol forum ? :shock:
David Doyle
You can be naive and that is OK you may change but your anti-American comments in my mind are totally unacceptable.
While you or may not agree with the American presence in Iraq at least they have the balls to put it on the line. They also are prepared to support their military which is a hell of a lot more than Canadians are willing to do. At least the bunch located somewhere between Manitoba and Quebec!
You can be naive and that is OK you may change but your anti-American comments in my mind are totally unacceptable.
While you or may not agree with the American presence in Iraq at least they have the balls to put it on the line. They also are prepared to support their military which is a hell of a lot more than Canadians are willing to do. At least the bunch located somewhere between Manitoba and Quebec!
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