Elk or black bear with 223 softpoint?
- Thread starter Robbs
- Start date
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
I hear a lot of the down attitude on the .223 for the elk.
However, I have seen many many posts by people, some of whom have posted in this thread, about the 400 or 500 yrd shot with a 300 wsm or 325 wssm or 7mm rum, etc.
I had said that this is too far a shot, yet was eaten with the defense that if these are the ranges that a hunter practices at at is comptetant at, then why am i so upset by the magnum guys. I really took some heed to that and eventually thought that was a pretty good argument.
Why is it that this argument is not holding true here.
Is the 300 wsm at 500 yrds in the hands of the competent shooter, any better/worse then the 223 at 100 yrds in the hands of a competent shooter?
If this is the gun that the guy uses at the range at knows it's range and effectiveness, then what is the problem?
I think that it is a bit too light a gun for me, but I'm sure there are guys here who can quite effectively use it.
However, I have seen many many posts by people, some of whom have posted in this thread, about the 400 or 500 yrd shot with a 300 wsm or 325 wssm or 7mm rum, etc.
I had said that this is too far a shot, yet was eaten with the defense that if these are the ranges that a hunter practices at at is comptetant at, then why am i so upset by the magnum guys. I really took some heed to that and eventually thought that was a pretty good argument.
Why is it that this argument is not holding true here.
Is the 300 wsm at 500 yrds in the hands of the competent shooter, any better/worse then the 223 at 100 yrds in the hands of a competent shooter?
If this is the gun that the guy uses at the range at knows it's range and effectiveness, then what is the problem?
I think that it is a bit too light a gun for me, but I'm sure there are guys here who can quite effectively use it.
"...55 gr .223 SP..." Shooting deer with varmint bullets are the reason the .223 should NOT be used for large game. Most factory ammo is loaded with varmint bullets. They're not made to penetrate. They're made to expand rapidly upon impact.
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
reloading?
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Gatehouse said:Well, you gotta use what you have! Remember though, that at the time it was introduced, the 30-30 was considered "modern technology"
I bet many of the hunters from years ago would have loved to have had a 30-06 and a Leupold!
The 30/30 also sends a chunk of lead substantially bigger than 55 grains, and the bullet is constructed to expand properly on big game.
.223 soft points are not.
But a 222 Remington MAGNUM is a different kettle of fish!
Or how 'bout the fella who lost the .17 Ackley on a bet? The guide who won it shot a Grizz with it.
True story, pics to come.....
Cat
Yup, I read that story just awhile ago too. But if were going to dwell on grizz stuff now, you got nothing on my little crossman bb pistol. You can pack that thing, because it's not a firearm, and it looks real enough to fool a grizz...
RobSmith, I had you figured for sort of a sensible guy, that last statement of yours is truly dissapointing.
My dad once told me that it is better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
My dad once told me that it is better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Another lady heard something getting her chickens,she grabed her .410 and headed to her hen house! When she got there and threw open the door two little black cubs almost knocked her down running out,then the sow about 200 lbs was on her!
As she fell the shotgun went up the bears nose as she fired!
Bear dead,but you bet your ass nobody went hunting for bear with a .410 !
Bo
)
As she fell the shotgun went up the bears nose as she fired!
Bear dead,but you bet your ass nobody went hunting for bear with a .410 !
Bo
)
The 223 WILL kill Elk or bear. The problem as I see it is: The margin for error with those smaller chamberings is so slight, that you can be in trouble in a millisecond. The wound channel is quite small, regardless of the bullet used. I do not subscribe to the theory that one needs a magnum to kill big game either. If you like to use one, fine, just don't give me a steely gaze and tell me that I must have one to shoot moose, Elk, bears or whatever. My idea of a practical size rifle for all North American Big game is in the 6.5x55-30-06 area. Proper bullets in most chamberings for these bullet diameters are effective and leave a bit of margin for a slight miscue. I have shot a lot of Elk, and I do not like 6mms for these big cervids. Some 25's work OK in the hands of a skilled hunter, but it's at around 6.5mm where the comfort zone starts, for ME at least. I have shot elk with the 264 Win Mag, and moose with the 6.5x55, using the 140 Partition, and they worked fine, but I didn't take any "hope" shots either. I really like the 7x57, loaded with 160 Partitions for the bigger members of the deer family, but limit shots to 300 yards or less with this one. Having taken about a dozen moose/elk with the 7x57, I have a lot of confidence in it.
If someone elects to use the 223 to shoot big game of any type, he must load with a "Game" bullet, (Partition or TSX) and be very careful to put that diminuitive
bullet exactly where it will do the deed. Personally, I will opt for a bigger gun. JMHO, Eagleye.
If someone elects to use the 223 to shoot big game of any type, he must load with a "Game" bullet, (Partition or TSX) and be very careful to put that diminuitive
bullet exactly where it will do the deed. Personally, I will opt for a bigger gun. JMHO, Eagleye.
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