Ellwood Epps customer service -- unhappy!

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Farmboy said:
Because my clients don't expect me to #### their SR-25, SR-15 or MK18 before I ship it to them.

They expect me to provide them with quality product, at a good price in a reasonable amount of time, and fix any issues they might have to their satisfaction.



Which question?



Actually if you go back and read what I wrote you'll notice I said that Epps should be harassing the distributor or manufacturer to cover the shipping charges.



Depends what the dealer is selling, and how it's listed.

I mean, checking a crate of SKS's when you purchased 500, sure. Some dealers/distributor do it to protect themselves.

As I already mentioned though, opening an ADM mount, a DD rail, a Remington 700P just ticks of clients who want there item NIB.
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Well ill have to defer to you as you certainly have the dealer knowledge. I just find that surprising, i guess in the end is not that they check it before it goes out but that they stand behind their product and make sure the customer doesn't get stuck with the problem.

I guess on a large scale, a huge order, checking every rifle over would be time consuming to say the least.

My earlier question was, in a business like P&D enterprises where they have tonnes of rifles on display, out of the box. Do they offer discounts on those cause its as you say not NIB?
 
Seems simple doesn't it.
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Again you use the word "seems".

And it just might seem simple to you, until you deal with clients of every spectrum.

True, some people are overly anal. I would tell them before shipping that you personally are going to open the box to ensure the product is sound and complete before you ship it. If they don't want you to open it then they take their chances.
offer it as a free service not a requirement.
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Here's the issue that come up with this.

Our emails sometimes get sent to junk mail, or people don't check their email every day, so by the time coms start and end, it could be a couple weeks and now a product that should have shipped asap, is now 2 weeks late. Now you have a client who could really give 2 sh!ts if you checked their product or not, he just wanted it for last weekends rifle match.

Yes, we could also phone, but then you risk the chance of contacting the buyers spouse, who doesn't know about the purpose -> and that never turns out well!! :D
 
If a store sends out a new gun to the customer. Takes the 'defective' one back to send to the warranty center, when they get it back, it is basically a used gun.
They would have a used gun for sale as new. Obviously if this was standard practice at all dealers, then all dealers would have factory repaired 'used' guns on their shelf being sold as new!
I would prefer to know that ALL the guns on the shelf are NEW!

So I agree with EPPS. Send it to the warranty center
 
My earlier question was, in a business like P&D enterprises where they have tonnes of rifles on display, out of the box. Do they offer discounts on those cause its as you say not NIB?
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I don't know how P&D does business or deals with rifles out on display. I assume that it's the same with other similar dealers, that the majority of those rifles are sold to walk in clients.

Also realize that not every client complained about their product being opened, however, if you get that, the one way to prevent it is to stop opening products. ;)
 
Farmboy said:
I don't know how P&D does business or deals with rifles out on display. I assume that it's the same with other similar dealers, that the majority of those rifles are sold to walk in clients.

Also realize that not every client complained about their product being opened, however, if you get that, the one way to prevent it is to stop opening products. ;)
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Fair enough, what your doing seems to be working for you, you always learn something in these threads weather you agree with it or not. In the end i hope the op gets treated fairly.
 
Farmboy said:
If you can tell if a firearm works or not just by opening the box and looking at it, please send me your resume and what wage you want to make. I assume you can figure out the exact issue as well.

I mean, even if it take an extra minute or so to wave your hand over the firearm, so be it, but you don't get extra for that. :p
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Sure,
1) Open box and alleviate gun of its protective wrappings and or locks.
2) Open snap cap of appropriate caliber and place a small piece of masking tape on primer area.
3) Insert snap cap into magazine, insert mag into gun.
4) Chamber snap cap to test for feed issues.
5)Test safety
6) 'Fire' gun, eject snap cap.
7) Check tape for dent caused by firing pin.
8) Check barrel for burrs/ rust/ other damage or defects
9)Check rest of gun for defects or missing pieces.
10) Insert paper stating that gun was checked to help guard against defects or missing items, but this doesn't guarantee 100% against faults.
11) Replace gun into packaging and ship.
12) If customer complains about defect that was missed honor your return policy/ warranty agreement.
 
Fair enough, what your doing seems to be working for you, you always learn something in these threads weather you agree with it or not. In the end i hope the op gets treated fairly.
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That's the key is making sure client (like the OP) are happy, if not, another thread appears.

I learn new stuff all the time, and try and improve from it, sometime it works, sometimes not (then I relearn yet again) :)
 
rivetc78 said:
If a store sends out a new gun to the customer. Takes the 'defective' one back to send to the warranty center, when they get it back, it is basically a used gun.
They would have a used gun for sale as new. Obviously if this was standard practice at all dealers, then all dealers would have factory repaired 'used' guns on their shelf being sold as new!
I would prefer to know that ALL the guns on the shelf are NEW!

So I agree with EPPS. Send it to the warranty center
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I wonder if you would agree with Epps if that were your gun. Somehow, I highly doubt it. :rolleyes:
 
rivetc78 said:
If a store sends out a new gun to the customer. Takes the 'defective' one back to send to the warranty center, when they get it back, it is basically a used gun.
They would have a used gun for sale as new. Obviously if this was standard practice at all dealers, then all dealers would have factory repaired 'used' guns on their shelf being sold as new!
I would prefer to know that ALL the guns on the shelf are NEW!

So I agree with EPPS. Send it to the warranty center
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What they would have is a "refurbished" gun selling at a "refurbished" price and not at a "new" price. Furthermore, I'm sure that someone with the buying clout of Epps would get some kind of credit from the distributor or manufaturer.
 
There was a post that mentioned Manufactures test firing 40 rnds,is that true,do all, or most test fire them before shipping,I know my glocks come with 2 fired casings,do they just fire 2

If a retailer states that they may have also test fired the gun ,for whatever unknown reason, is that still a BNIB firearm

I have only purchased 7 new hand guns,5 of them in the last 6 months, honestly I just assumed they had never been fired at all,until the glocks came with 2 casings and the test date

And now getting something as BNIB that looks "handled" makes me wonder, at what point the BNIB is now a floor model ,demo, salesmans test ride

Never to old to learn some frustrating costly lessons,and hopefully avoid some from reading threads like these
 
You'd think that every firearm would have to be opened and looked at so you can confirm the serial number before shipping. Its not uncommon to sometimes have the sticker on the box not match the serial number on the firearm. That always gives you a chance to look it over before you send it out.

Wouldnt solve the function problem, but definitely lets you make sure the finish is intact.
 
Farmboy said:
If you can tell if a firearm works or not just by opening the box and looking at it, please send me your resume and what wage you want to make. I assume you can figure out the exact issue as well.

I mean, even if it take an extra minute or so to wave your hand over the firearm, so be it, but you don't get extra for that. :p
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Farmboy, you really don't get it! or worse you don't want to get it!!!!!

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the defective firearm.

However it has everything to do with Epps' policy to let their customer hang high and dry.

This is very shameful, and you should not even think of trying to defend these awful business practices!

Please don't deal in guns, better continue farming
 
ciphery said:
Sure,
1) Open box and alleviate gun of its protective wrappings and or locks.
2) Open snap cap of appropriate caliber and place a small piece of masking tape on primer area.
3) Insert snap cap into magazine, insert mag into gun.
4) Chamber snap cap to test for feed issues.
5)Test safety
6) 'Fire' gun, eject snap cap.
7) Check tape for dent caused by firing pin.
8) Check barrel for burrs/ rust/ other damage or defects
9)Check rest of gun for defects or missing pieces.
10) Insert paper stating that gun was checked to help guard against defects or missing items, but this doesn't guarantee 100% against faults.
11) Replace gun into packaging and ship.
12) If customer complains about defect that was missed honor your return policy/ warranty agreement.
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13 dont buy crap guns and you dont have to worry about all of that!
No really your list and more has to be done by all firearms MFG in north america and the EU.
Im sure even new compaines like NEA test fire each gun before it gos out the door, if not for QC issues, simply in case of a law suite im sure it would be the cheapest way to prove they went out of ther way to make sure that the injury the person may have gotten was not there fault.

Myself i think the guns should no to the warrintee depot, the reason most of us freak out about that is how long it takes.
Remington in canada used to be the worst for this, now they have a 72hr policy.
That being they will contact the gunshop and/or person and let them know what the problem is within 72hrs of getting the firearm.
They allso have $100,000+ of part in stock at all times.
Most of the repair centers are under staffed and under skilled, this is the issue in canada as i see it.
If the op was told ,sorry about that the MFG will have you gun looked at and back to you this time next week, i dont think most of us would have an issue.
bbb
 
As for those "opposite statements" you claim to have read from me in some previous post, the statements made herein have always been our policy for used firearms only. That is 30 days return for defective products. Like any business, we do not accept returns on an item simply because you did not like the look or the colour of it once you got the product home. "No questions asked" refers to function or fault of the item purchased, not buyer's remorse.
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He he, thats funny. So "no questions asked" really isn't true then, is it, if you ask questions about why its being returned. "no questions asked" is just that, you dont question why its being returned, you just take it back, or am I missing something?
 
Wow, can't believe I spent 10 minutes rading this thread.
It started well, but was hijacked and not much on topic anymore... Too bad

My personnal opinion is that in this good comms is the key, and it't hard to do over the internet or sometime the phone (just rading this thread is a good example...).

I really hope that things get sorted out for the OP. ai am not saying that I will not buy from Epps, because if the price is good, I mignt be willing to take the chance, witch is something we all do in a way when buying over the internet. People buy over the internetfor various reason, but let's face it, price is one of the top factor with availability

Agree with Darren that BNIB is BNIB. It is also a double edge sword, if it is checked to some degree by the seller, then you get it and have issues, you will get the blame? The seller.

At the end of the day, I would have expected The buyer to ship it back to Epps and then Epps covering all the cost from there. For me, on a neutral perspective, i would seems fair as an average customer service. A good customer service will cover all costs. That is just my 2 cents.
 
Harrier .45 said:
With regard to registration, once a firearm is listed as sold and registered to an individual, it is recorded as a sold/registered/used item with the government. This same record follows the firearm forever more, much like the trail of ownership on a vehicle. Once the registration has been approved, the firearm is no longer available to be listed as a New firearm, and thus, as noted, the warranty cannot be transferred to a secondary buyer. Again, only the distributor or the manufacturer can authorize the return of an item to their warehouse, and the final decision so to whether to repair or replace that item with a new model, under the current warranty agreement.
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That is complete BS.

While an "ownership" history does follow a firearm in regards to the CFC, it has absolutely nothing to do with warranty issues. S&W could never query the registry to find out the firearms history... in fact, if the CFC were to release that information to them (or anyone) would be a huge breach of security.

All the manufacturer/warranty center needs is copy of the original bill of sale.. that's proof of original ownership.
 
I think the main thing to consider here is
1. The brand new firearm was defective.
2. The OP paid for a fully functioning firearm and didn't recieve it.
3. The OP should NOT have to pay any extra shipping to end up with what he has ALREADY paid for.
End of story.
Epp's should pay any and all shipping to and from the repair center.

I"ve had 2 problem's with gun's I got from a local dealer in the past.
One of the problem's I noticed right away and it was taken care of (fixed) the next day.
The other problem developed 2 years after I bought it and it was out of warranty by a good margin.
My dealer promptly fixed that issue as well, AT NO CHARGE!
Just for that I have to put a plug in here for Frank at Frontier gun & sport in Fonthill Ont.
Unfortunatley some companies don't have the same level of commitment to their customers.
Eric
 
I spend my money in stores that stand behind a brand new product they have on their shelf, and treat their customers well and don't abandon them when they have problems.
Needless to say EPP's is not one of them, from my own experience. I shop else
where
 
tiriaq said:
So the purpose of this whinethread is to.....?
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Perhaps the op is putting this out there to give the rest of us fair warning and chance to avoid having a similar experience there? Stores should rma product that is defective out of the box. They should not pawn it off on the consumer to do.
 
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