EPIC FAIL... How can IPSC support Action Air especially when they promote it this way

gambit said:
Yes maybe, it will also help some anti gunner decide that IPSC in Canada doesn't need real firearms because we now can use toyguns :welcome:
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Tell that to the antigunners. There's been just as many pushes to ban airsoft and airsoft is in very rocky ground since they're both replicas but can still shoot. And airsoft laws are just as nonsensicle as firearms laws since there hasn't been an official ruling on them; CBSA and RCMP get to make up them as they go along.

http://www.007airsoft.com/legality.htm <-- huge amount of just how stupid Canadian law is regarding airsoft too.


KenC 007airsoft said:
1) An replica Airsoft gun that shoots a 0.2g 6mm BB between 407-785 FPS is classifed an uncontrolled firearm, and is legal for civilian to purchase and possess.
2) If it shoots below this range, it is classified a replica firearm and is prohibited.
3) If it shoots above this range, it is classified a controlled firearm and you'll need a valid PAL and firearm registration.



Replica firearms are prohibited in Canada since 1998 Dec 1st (Bill C-68). Most Airsoft guns are classified as replicas if they are fully colored, because they look exactly like their real counter parts right down to the specific models, but their projectiles cannot cause serious bodily harm. By Law, you can keep your replica firearms in possession without any permits or licenses, as long as you have acquired such replica firearm before 1998 December 1st (before they became prohibited). However any replica firearms that you have acquired after that date (from Canada or abroad) have supposedly some how gotten to you illegally, unless you have a prohibited goods permit. Ref: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp- pcaf/fs-fd/replica-replique- eng.htm
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Both sides often fail to realize that C68 also affected airsoft, just that the police had better things to do then chase down toys and airsoft wasn't anywhere near as big back then. See the part about grandfathering airsoft guns that were already in country? Sound familiar?

Lot of us got a rude wake up call when the RCMP initiate several raids against retailers in 2007 and caused many of them to shut down (we thought it was the end of airsoft). So for everyone ridiculing airsoft, just stop; airsoft's just as much a target as real steel in the eyes of the public. Alienating it is not gonna do us any good.
 
Starscream said:
Tell that to the antigunners. There's been just as many pushes to ban airsoft and airsoft is in very rocky ground since they're both replicas but can still shoot. And airsoft laws are just as nonsensicle as firearms laws since there hasn't been an official ruling on them; CBSA and RCMP get to make up them as they go along.

http://www.007airsoft.com/legality.htm <-- huge amount of just how stupid Canadian law is regarding airsoft too.






Both sides often fail to realize that C68 also affected airsoft, just that the police had better things to do then chase down toys and airsoft wasn't anywhere near as big back then. See the part about grandfathering airsoft guns that were already in country? Sound familiar?

Lot of us got a rude wake up call when the RCMP initiate several raids against retailers in 2007 and caused many of them to shut down (we thought it was the end of airsoft). So for everyone ridiculing airsoft, just stop; airsoft's just as much a target as real steel in the eyes of the public. Alienating it is not gonna do us any good.
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I am not riculling air soft its just another argument for the anti's to use againt us IPSC:D
 
pottsy said:
A gateway activity is .22 rimfire, NOT a toy.
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Wrong.. as to shot 22 pistol and own one you would already have an R-PAL

Airsoft and pellet guns are a gateway to shooting sports, and a significant impetus to getting licensed.

And the BS .. regarding Airsoft being the death knell for "REAL" guns because "the man" will see you can do IPSC with toys so you don't need guns" is a straw man argument. If you believe that.. you may as well bury your guns tonight.

If that was enough.. it would be dead already

If you guys had a little more "welcome" and a little less "f**K off" in you the sport would be thriving.
 
Bentleg said:
If you guys had a little more "welcome" and a little less "f**K off" in you the sport would be thriving.
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This argument is nonsense.
You could say this about any and every sport on Earth.

I see no other shooting sport opening up to an airsoft version to attract those that shoot airsoft already - and that demographic is the only ones you'll realistically be drawing in aside from children that physically cannot fire real firearms. I don't see the attraction of trying to introduce children at such an early age either.
 
beltfed said:
This argument is nonsense.
You could say this about any and every sport on Earth.

I see no other shooting sport opening up to an airsoft version to attract those that shoot airsoft already - and that demographic is the only ones you'll realistically be drawing in aside from children that physically cannot fire real firearms. I don't see the attraction of trying to introduce children at such an early age either.
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Don't need hearing protection, no BS paperwork to deal with, no stupid expensive insurance, no need for expensive backstops, don't need to reload, don't need to police brass (they sell biodegradable BBs), no fear of dangerous ricochets, and if you need practice you can setup a heavy rug backstop in the basement and practice, and you can shoot 2000+ rounds for $25.

Not saying airsoft's better then real steel. I actually like shooting real guns more then airsoft and there's things that airsoft can never replicate like the noise and recoil, not to mention psychological elements of pointing a real gun at something. But airsoft is extremely complementary to shooting real guns. And cheap enough that you can do both without too big a dent into your shooting budget.


And here's a humorous twist of irony; it's actually safer to put a real gun onto a plane (checked luggage) then it is a GBB airsoft gun, as GBBs run off of pressurized propane or CO2 that could very easily rupture in low pressure environments. We actually strongly recommend removing all the valves from GBB magazines and purchasing propane locally when flying.



Edit: Hong Kong IPSC Action Air
[youtube]ABhkFTO4cp4[/youtube]
 
SquibLoad said:
IPSC's principles are Diligentia Vis Celeritas (DVC) accuracy POWER speed, where does a toy gun fit in there? Makes you wonder where the powers that be are taking IPSC to?
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This is not IPSC. But this is to IPSC what T-ball is to baseball or racing go-karts is to Formula 1.

I have had mixed feels about the airsoft and .22 thing as well. But this year, my 5-year old who loves baseball (which I can take or leave) started playing T-ball.
He can't hit a pitched ball very well yet but he loves the game. In a couple of years, he will hit balls thrown by an adult coach and then in a year or so more, pitched balls. He will acquire some skills along the way and learn to love the game.

If he was thrown into a real baseball game, he would fail, learn to hate the game and walk away from it.

In Canada, we don't have a lot of youth in our sport. It is fairly unique (for sport) in that almost everyone starts as an adult. I am 44 years old and this is one sport where most people are older and less fit than me where anything else I would be an an over-the-hill adult league. There are some challenges as this is a shooting sport and we are in Canada and at least for now have to work within the laws that we have. We already have huge barriers to entry (licensing + cost).

We don't have a feeder system where youth acquire some skills gradually (safety amongst them) as well as a love and appreciation of the sport. You don't think there there will be some kid who starts winning at airsoft who won't aspire to shoot in the big leagues (IPSC)? I am pretty sure my kid will not want to be just hitting off a T-ball tee in a couple of years. You don't think that kids or youth will look up to the more mature A-Class/Master/Grandmaster who gives his/her time to them?

We can keep this as a fairly exclusive expensive sport for adults where even people in the shooting community who shoot handguns don't know what it is, or we have the opportunity to make this into something more widespread, keep it safe. In the long term, if this is entrenched as a safe widespread activity, it will protect IPSC and handgun ownership in the future better than an exclusive expensive sport that noone has heard of.

(I expect that I will start dropping in class further and further if we get youth who know what they are doing enter our sport.

Andrew
 
andrewl said:
This is not IPSC. But this is to IPSC what T-ball is to baseball or racing go-karts is to Formula 1.

I have had mixed feels about the airsoft and .22 thing as well. But this year, my 5-year old who loves baseball (which I can take or leave) started playing T-ball.
He can't hit a pitched ball very well yet but he loves the game. In a couple of years, he will hit balls thrown by an adult coach and then in a year or so more, pitched balls. He will acquire some skills along the way and learn to love the game.

If he was thrown into a real baseball game, he would fail, learn to hate the game and walk away from it.

In Canada, we don't have a lot of youth in our sport. It is fairly unique (for sport) in that almost everyone starts as an adult. I am 44 years old and this is one sport where most people are older and less fit than me where anything else I would be an an over-the-hill adult league. There are some challenges as this is a shooting sport and we are in Canada and at least for now have to work within the laws that we have. We already have huge barriers to entry (licensing + cost).

We don't have a feeder system where youth acquire some skills gradually (safety amongst them) as well as a love and appreciation of the sport. You don't think there there will be some kid who starts winning at airsoft who won't aspire to shoot in the big leagues (IPSC)? I am pretty sure my kid will not want to be just hitting off a T-ball tee in a couple of years. You don't think that kids or youth will look up to the more mature A-Class/Master/Grandmaster who gives his/her time to them?

We can keep this as a fairly exclusive expensive sport for adults where even people in the shooting community who shoot handguns don't know what it is, or we have the opportunity to make this into something more widespread, keep it safe. In the long term, if this is entrenched as a safe widespread activity, it will protect IPSC and handgun ownership in the future better than an exclusive expensive sport that noone has heard of.

(I expect that I will start dropping in class further and further if we get youth who know what they are doing enter our sport.

Andrew
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:agree:

Well said.

Shooting, it's all good. Why not spend less time arguing among ourselves and spend the energy fighting the ppl that want to take away ALL our guns, airsoft or steel.
 
andrewl said:
This is not IPSC. But this is to IPSC what T-ball is to baseball or racing go-karts is to Formula 1.

I have had mixed feels about the airsoft and .22 thing as well. But this year, my 5-year old who loves baseball (which I can take or leave) started playing T-ball.
He can't hit a pitched ball very well yet but he loves the game. In a couple of years, he will hit balls thrown by an adult coach and then in a year or so more, pitched balls. He will acquire some skills along the way and learn to love the game.

If he was thrown into a real baseball game, he would fail, learn to hate the game and walk away from it.

In Canada, we don't have a lot of youth in our sport. It is fairly unique (for sport) in that almost everyone starts as an adult. I am 44 years old and this is one sport where most people are older and less fit than me where anything else I would be an an over-the-hill adult league. There are some challenges as this is a shooting sport and we are in Canada and at least for now have to work within the laws that we have. We already have huge barriers to entry (licensing + cost).

We don't have a feeder system where youth acquire some skills gradually (safety amongst them) as well as a love and appreciation of the sport. You don't think there there will be some kid who starts winning at airsoft who won't aspire to shoot in the big leagues (IPSC)? I am pretty sure my kid will not want to be just hitting off a T-ball tee in a couple of years. You don't think that kids or youth will look up to the more mature A-Class/Master/Grandmaster who gives his/her time to them?

We can keep this as a fairly exclusive expensive sport for adults where even people in the shooting community who shoot handguns don't know what it is, or we have the opportunity to make this into something more widespread, keep it safe. In the long term, if this is entrenched as a safe widespread activity, it will protect IPSC and handgun ownership in the future better than an exclusive expensive sport that noone has heard of.

(I expect that I will start dropping in class further and further if we get youth who know what they are doing enter our sport.

Andrew
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:agree:
personally i came to canada from hong kong a few years back
my interest in shooting started with airsoft before my move and now i am totally in the sport of IPSC

imho, as long as the "correct and safe" way of the sport is carried over in airsoft, i don't see why shooting airsoft with a part of the IPSC game cannot be promoted, especially to the group of people which has no access to firearm or at an age not strong enough to handle a full power pistol
 
strikeraj said:
:agree:
personally i came to canada from hong kong a few years back
my interest in shooting started with airsoft before my move and now i am totally in the sport of IPSC

imho, as long as the "correct and safe" way of the sport is carried over in airsoft, i don't see why shooting airsoft with a part of the IPSC game cannot be promoted, especially to the group of people which has no access to firearm or at an age not strong enough to handle a full power pistol
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I guess that is why you beat VF at WCRA's Lvl III with a production gun in the open divison! Practice!:D
 
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