Ethical Question. Do you kill a female bear with a cub?

Status
Not open for further replies.
canadian hunter312 said:
they claimed that 25-30% were sows and i'll assume it's nearly impossible to know how many actually had cubs or not. although she'll usually stay close to the cubs, it doesn't always happen and you may see a lone sow, mistake it for a boar, and end up leaving orphaned cubs in the bush. it would be different if there was a definitive way for even the dumbest of dumb-dumbs to ID the ###. a spring boar hunt would be easy, but they're worried about people shooting sows and it makes sense when you consider how many "hunters" out there are so trigger happy.
Click to expand...

The Humane Society has tried the same thing here in Manitoba a few years ago. Their "concern" was not about hunters shooting female bears, it was about shooting female bears that had cubs and thus leaving the cubs to starve. This is and was a moot point as it has always been illegal to shoot a sow with cubs here, either in spring or fall.
And you're quite wrong about bear behaviour. Sows will not leave the cubs as she wonders off, as is the case with whitetail, they will always be right at her side.

canadian hunter312 said:
btw...i never said anything about sows with cubs, you added that part ;)
Click to expand...

See below ;)

canadian hunter312 said:
even if only half of those sows had cubs, that's quite a few cubs that were left to find food and fend off other bears on their own.
Click to expand...
 
If you want to end bear hunting, especially spring bear hunting, shoot lots of sows with cubs, and then make it public that you think it's just fine to do that.

If I was a troll for anti-hunting, suggesting it is OK to shoot sows with cubs is just what I would do on a hunting forum. If it isn't obvious to all real hunters, that shooting a mother when it will provide her cubs with a long, slow, suffering death is completely unethical, then hunting is doomed.
 
The "Studies" that were done in Ontario were of the same sort that Liberals used to enact the registry.

Other reports suggest there have actually been MORE cubs orphaned since the Spring Hunt was cancelled due to sows being shot as nuisance bears, as well as being hit by cars due to the population explosion.

As for the question being stupid - go back and read his posts - he agrees that it IS unethical, and it was the person he was hunting with who suggested taking the sow.
 
The MNR in Ontario (and rural people) have been putting down more bears since the spring bear hunt was cancelled, this is a fact. You can bet that some have been sows with cubs causing the problems. Only thing that can be done if you are concerned is to press for the spring bear hunt to come back. I noticed it is not even on the table for the upcoming provincial election. In the fall hunt it has never been illegal to shoot a sow with cubs, much like you can shoot a moose or deer with calf or fawn. Someone had done research on fall cubs left abandon and the survival rate was pretty high, much like a calf or fawn. Would everyone pass on a cow or doe with a calf or fawn?
 
I believe the spring hunt was canceled in Ontario, because of the bear cub mortality question.
No hunter I know, or ever knew, shot a sow with young.

I dont think the liberals were involved in Ontarios cancelation of the spring bear hunt... I think it was the.... umm... I dont remember which party.:(
 
dmv said:
The "Studies" that were done in Ontario were of the same sort that Liberals used to enact the registry.

Other reports suggest there have actually been MORE cubs orphaned since the Spring Hunt was cancelled due to sows being shot as nuisance bears, as well as being hit by cars due to the population explosion.

As for the question being stupid - go back and read his posts - he agrees that it IS unethical, and it was the person he was hunting with who suggested taking the sow.
Click to expand...

"Studies" and "reports" can be fashioned to support or refute anything one would care to debate.
The question was not not one of legality, rather one of morality. If the OP also feels it is un-ethical to shoot a Sow with cubs then why come on a public forum looking for support to the contrary.
 
Last edited:
Found said:
Would everyone pass on a cow or doe with a calf or fawn?
Click to expand...

Sadly, many would not. I myself would never even consider shooting a mother which had young ones, no matter the species. I've let female coyotes and skunks walk which were with young ones. I find it a vile and disgusting practice and anyone doing so should have their hunting privileges revoked (rant off :) )
 
Be like me,be like me, be like me!The old if you don't do what I do you are not a hunter,and have no ethics!All posts boil down to this sooner or later!
 
I believe it was cancelled to get votes for the party concerned,with no real evidence pointing to the shooting of bears with cubs!
 
bearkilr said:
Sadly, many would not. I myself would never even consider shooting a mother which had young ones, no matter the species. I've let female coyotes and skunks walk which were with young ones. I find it a vile and disgusting practice and anyone doing so should have their hunting privileges revoked (rant off :) )
Click to expand...

Well from your point of view I guess bear population will surely multiply, since they have cubs with them spring & fall :cool:
 
bearkilr said:
Sadly, many would not. I myself would never even consider shooting a mother which had young ones, no matter the species. I've let female coyotes and skunks walk which were with young ones. I find it a vile and disgusting practice and anyone doing so should have their hunting privileges revoked (rant off :) )
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of other areas, but in WMU 57 I have seen sows that have cubs that are not even cubs anymore...they are 175lbs, pretty well full grown, and feeding on their own. I would have no problem in taking the sow in that case. If they are young cubs, momma walks...but if they are feeding on their own, and obviously not yearlings, momma gets it.
 
Here is the final word from the MNR.

There is no regulation in effect in Ontario that forbids the shooting of a sow with a cub.

Now can those who have been offensive, telling me that it is illegal and that:
1) If you need an answer to this question you'd better give up hunting. I'm pretty sure it's also illegal in most places to shoot a sow away from her cubs.
2) Same in Ontario. OP needs to read the regs more closely
3) If you have to ask, yopu have no reason hunting. Can't take the time to read the regs? Take up knitting before you do something stupid and give the other hunters a bad name.

Are you adult enough to post your apologies for being such arrogant p***ks?

When I post here I am looking for responses from mature people who are not out to be offensive just for the "fun" of it.

I read the regs but did not find anything. So I asked for advice from the best online resource I know of.

But mostly all I got was a bunch of hot air from people who don't know the regs and in their own words "Should take up knitting before you do something stupid"
 
IBTL

and since it's not illegal, you can shoot if you wish, the only thing stopping you is you

nothing wrong in following the regs, hell that is why they were written.....

to keep me safe and legal, I follow them.....


tbrwlf said:
Here is the final word from the MNR.

There is no regulation in effect in Ontario that forbids the shooting of a sow with a cub.

Now can those who have been offensive, telling me that it is illegal and that:
1) If you need an answer to this question you'd better give up hunting. I'm pretty sure it's also illegal in most places to shoot a sow away from her cubs.
2) Same in Ontario. OP needs to read the regs more closely
3) If you have to ask, yopu have no reason hunting. Can't take the time to read the regs? Take up knitting before you do something stupid and give the other hunters a bad name.

Are you adult enough to post your apologies for being such arrogant p***ks?

When I post here I am looking for responses from mature people who are not out to be offensive just for the "fun" of it.

I read the regs but did not find anything. So I asked for advice from the best online resource I know of.

But mostly all I got was a bunch of hot air from people who don't know the regs and in their own words "Should take up knitting before you do something stupid"
Click to expand...
 
You can have my apology, I was wrong about the Ontario regulations. That said, I was not wrong in stating it is against the law in the majority of states and provinces.

I would strongly suggest to the Ontario hunters that unless you'd like to lose your bear season altogether, petition the MNR to outlaw the shooting of sows with cubs( immature, young of that year-not yearlings). I also don't think I'm alone in my views of leaving orphaned young behind, no matter the species.
 
A few of us (myself included, and I did apologize when I was shown to be in error) did indeed state incorrectly that the regs prohibited the shooting of sows with cubs. The bulk of us stated, some more forcefully than others, that whether legal or not the practice was ethically and morally unacceptable.

If your moral compass tells you its wrong, then don't do it. You posted:

tbrwlf said:
I am normally opposed to killing a sow with cubs but I am not getting much action this year.

What do you guys think? Take the sow or leave her and hope for better later in the season.
Click to expand...

Now you are saying that you were against it all along, but that certainly isn't how your post came across. For most people, I believe the inference was that you were having a slow year and the idea of shooting her was looking better and better.

Right or wrong, you got a lot of responses calling you to task for your apparently very fluid and flexible ethical stance. Now you stamp your little feet in anger and start name calling?

What a piece of work!
 
Legal or Not.

Ethically I don't support orphaning young animals. They are needed to provide hunting opportunities to those who follow us in to the field in future years.

jjohnwm: My moral compass is straighter than you can imagine possible. I did not start the abuse. That was you and others here. I am only giving back what was handed out. Maybe you should try reading less into peoples questions and read your own answers for how they will come across. If you can't be civil then maybe you should be a lurker and say nothing.

Nuff said.
 
You could try to reason with the bear, maybe ask her not to eat from your station until after dark so you have all day to hunt for other bears. You could also leave a special fish as a thank you after you leave.

She could get tried for treason, knowingly letting other bears walk into a trap, but you wouldn't be breaking any rules.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom