Ethically speaking . . .
- Thread starter heronfish
- Start date
Ethics Is a slippery slope after all we are talking about killing
Wen I was a kid I learned to hunt deer with 22lr (it is illegal to hunt deer with a 22lr )
If I had to guess I probably have seen first hand probably 60 deer killed with 22lr in my Younger days it was common practice back then
(To day I like using the 30 calaber famly especially with all the ATV booming all over the bush spooking the deer)
22lr was all we had and Evan at that we were barely able to buy 22 ammo
My stepdad and grandfather had no problem with us kids using 22lr
They taught us to be patient close the distance under 35yards and to make precise head or neck shots a 22lr do kill deer bang flop if you know what your doing
It just the way I was being Brought up as a poor kid from northern BC
Any calaber will work and consistently produce bang flop sum rifles and calibers you have to get closer and pick your shoot but don't you do this regardless of caliber
Wen I was a kid I learned to hunt deer with 22lr (it is illegal to hunt deer with a 22lr )
If I had to guess I probably have seen first hand probably 60 deer killed with 22lr in my Younger days it was common practice back then
(To day I like using the 30 calaber famly especially with all the ATV booming all over the bush spooking the deer)
22lr was all we had and Evan at that we were barely able to buy 22 ammo
My stepdad and grandfather had no problem with us kids using 22lr
They taught us to be patient close the distance under 35yards and to make precise head or neck shots a 22lr do kill deer bang flop if you know what your doing
It just the way I was being Brought up as a poor kid from northern BC
Any calaber will work and consistently produce bang flop sum rifles and calibers you have to get closer and pick your shoot but don't you do this regardless of caliber
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- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
I knew at that range that it was a good hit.
I had to use a 357 mag on a moose hunting trip after damaged my 308
I did get within 25 yards on a young bull and was going to take the shot but I had a kid with me just as I was going to shoot I looked over at him and said go a head you take yore first moose
the kid gut shot the bull with 243 and I quickly planted one in the head bang flop with 357 mag
the kid had a bad case of buck fever he has long out grown it and has become a vary good hunter
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Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This is the first deer I shot with the ROA
The other thing to keep in mind is that people use Archery with great success every year. As long as you are patient, it will work just fine.
Very nice harvest indeed and appropriate!
Cheers....
PS: Was that with a .457 round ball or lead bullet of some type??
curious here
Yuppers on the .457 lead round ball and a cylinder full of Shockey's Gold. Most (not all) stick-on wheel weights are pure lead. I have a friend that owns a tire shop and I own a Lee mould. I practice alot.
I've tried conicals and found the RB to be the most accurate.
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orillia, Ontario
Long before I knew anything of ballistics, bullet weight, foot/pounds of energy or any of that disiderata, I was taught how to hunt, how to shoot and took several deer with a
Model 92 rifle in 44-40 and factory loads. I know that the 30-30, 32 Special and 38-55 are all quite adequate and will take deer reliably, not to mention moose and black bear.
Over the last nearly half-century I have taken deer with the 44-40, 44 Magnum, 30-30, 348, 308, 270, 45-70, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 25-06, 257, 264 WM and even one with a 450 Alaskan. For the last 9 years I've stuck with the 257, but wouldn't hesitate with a 38-55 and some good lead handloads.
Ethics have a lot more to do with what, where, when, why and how you hunt, your conduct (especially when you think no one's watching or will know) ... than with what cartridge you may choose to use. Sure, "use enough gun" as they say, but you don't have to necessarily go overboard either. I'm fairly certain that the deer today are no tougher than they were at the end of the 1800's.
Model 92 rifle in 44-40 and factory loads. I know that the 30-30, 32 Special and 38-55 are all quite adequate and will take deer reliably, not to mention moose and black bear.
Over the last nearly half-century I have taken deer with the 44-40, 44 Magnum, 30-30, 348, 308, 270, 45-70, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 25-06, 257, 264 WM and even one with a 450 Alaskan. For the last 9 years I've stuck with the 257, but wouldn't hesitate with a 38-55 and some good lead handloads.
Ethics have a lot more to do with what, where, when, why and how you hunt, your conduct (especially when you think no one's watching or will know) ... than with what cartridge you may choose to use. Sure, "use enough gun" as they say, but you don't have to necessarily go overboard either. I'm fairly certain that the deer today are no tougher than they were at the end of the 1800's.
Maybe the reason I asked is that I've never used a cast bullet in a hunting situation before. If they result in show kills, it's not exactly something I would want to use either.
Did shoot my mule doe last year with a 9.3x57 using 270 gr Speers, so I'm definitely not adverse to using an old (weak) chambering. She only managed to jump the fence and make a few more bounces before ending up on the side hill. That bullet sure impressed me, taking out the heart and the reducing the offside shoulder to coyote food. Alays amazes me how far a deer can go without a heart. One would think it would be a bang flop, but she made it 50 yards.
Did shoot my mule doe last year with a 9.3x57 using 270 gr Speers, so I'm definitely not adverse to using an old (weak) chambering. She only managed to jump the fence and make a few more bounces before ending up on the side hill. That bullet sure impressed me, taking out the heart and the reducing the offside shoulder to coyote food. Alays amazes me how far a deer can go without a heart. One would think it would be a bang flop, but she made it 50 yards.
monster hunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- nova scotia
I think the 38-55 is perfectly ethical . 30-30 has probably killed the most deer in the past 100 years or so . that said I do think that you are giving yourself a slight handicap because of the low velocity , range , penetration , etc. all thing being equal the faster bullet should be more effective . not that handicapping yourself is a bad thing , lots of people hunt with a bow in gun season and that's a big handicap. still ethical just more challenge . to me being ethical is more about knowing your limits , shot placement etc. so take that old girl out and enjoy the hunt.
I wouldn't call a 9.3 x 57 weak, personally. Just not a whiz-bang swift mover. Sorta like a 3 ton truck isn't lacking in final power, it's just not a racecar.
It's sure as hell isn't going to bounce off and a 38 cal hole through vital organs is gonna be the end of any critters day. What do you think would happen if you hit a deer in the heart or lungs with a 250gr pill gong 1700 fps?? Practice with it, find your limits and stay within them. Read my sig line, note who it's by and the date and what would have been available to someone at that time. The 30-30 was the 300 rum In those days.
This is not at all true, they are many other important variables - bullet placement being the most important, but also bullet size/weight, construction/design and terminal performance. Its true that there is likely an absolute minimum threshold that most common bullets from shoulder fired arms need to travel in order to sufficiently penetrate and perform in order to kill humanely but that would be very slow compared to most hunting arms of the last century. Even classic 28KPI loads in the .45-70 are very powerful with a proven record of rapidly killing large mammals.
In fact not so long ago many experienced hunters preferred slower bullets than a many do today because premium 5th/6th generation bullets were not common. Many looked down at lighter bullets as these made 'slower killers' of game at times when the fragmented, despite their higher velocity. In my youth (not long ago) the mantra of many of my mentors 'heavy for calibre' in non-magnums because they found they killed more reliably at lower velocities (e.g. with standard cup and core bullets they touted 220gr in .30-06, 175gr in 7x57, 180gr in .308, 220gr in 8x57 etc.)
Old and weak! Where's that polar bear thread that was just posted?Here you go, now go give that old girl a hug and say your sorry right now!http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...-Husqvarna-M46-in-9-3x57?highlight=Polar+bear
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Dang it! Waverin' off topic again, but as just stated, the 9.3x57 is dandy for hunting big & lesser game. Sh*tload of fun to shoot as well. Folks with these will have fun using Bullet Barn 280 gr. cast GC pushed at moderate speeds from 1300-1700 fps. & get good accuracy from them as well. This be the cartridge that replaced my old favorite, the .375 Winchester.
Da one in de middle.
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Da one in de middle.
View attachment 60907
prairie lover
CGN Regular
- Location
- southern MB
slight handicap due to penetration? the 38 55 and 30 30 with cup and core bullet will quite easily out penetrate most fast modern chamberings that shot a cup and core bullet and look how many people hunt with for instance a 270 win and off the shelf cup and core bullet. by my tests the 30-30 and a 170 gr sp out penetrates the 270 and its 130 by about 30 percent. the low velocity makes for much higher weight retention and that's wat does it. heck the 30 30 and a 170 win power point out penetrated the 7mm rem mag and its 175 power point, both factory ammo, by 30 percent in my tests.
