Animal belongs to the guy with the last shot in it before it drops dead.
Ethics scenario
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Animal belongs to the guy with the last shot in it before it drops dead.
New Camper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lurking in the woods near SFRC.
This depends on the condition of the animal: I've helped guys recover deer and had to shoot them again. A deer with a busted front leg is not really going to survive in my books and counts as a kill: Really I'd have never jumped it in the woods if it were likely to recover. Another one I jumped while searching and it had a flesh wound... it would have been down for a few days and sore for a week, but probably survived... I jumped it while it was down within a couple hours of first being shot at and by that point I was following instinct and knowledge of the land and was the only one still searching (what little blood trail was long dried and the brush swallowed the tracks). First one I did not accept as my own, second one I did... though it is unlikely either would have allowed me to get so close in that brush to get good shot if it wasn't because they were wounded. But I suppose that's why it is called "ethics" not "morals": these differ between people and are not engraved on immutable stone tablets by an immutable higher power.
In Sask.
After Legal time has passed you need permission to look for wounded animal.
IF i had cell coverage I would call...IF not I would carry on.
As far as not recovering....IF an animal dies from a lethal hit it will likely be in that general area.....birds and coyotes will be on the carcass and you will be able to find it....IF you visit the area the ravens, magpies eagles etc will guide you, after dark coyotes will also be on it.
So if you scour the area for a few days after it will be evident if the animal lived or not ...so you could carry on hunting.
Interesting. That makes more sense now.
In BC it is worded “It is unlawful to kill, cripple, or wound game without making all reasonable effort to locate, dispatch, retrieve and include it in his/her bag limit”.
The way that was explained to me by a CO buddy, is that it is basically a mercy clause for the animal. You have already hunted it during legal hours, and now you need to dispatch it and include it in your bag limit.
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
In the exact scenario I would cut my tag
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I had something similar happen to me a few years ago. Shot at a deer and found no blood trail in the snow within the first 50 yard and it was getting dark, I didn't want to bump the deer in the dark if it was wounded. Went back the next morning and found the deer 200 yards away via the ravens. Coyotes and the ravens had it 90% gone. I back tacked the deer and there was only a blood trail for the last 50 yards, up to the point not a drop. I considered that deer as an easy meal for the coyotes and ravens.
Never even considered cutting my tag however the season was almost over and I never did fill it. If the game population was healthy I would hunt on.
Never even considered cutting my tag however the season was almost over and I never did fill it. If the game population was healthy I would hunt on.
OK...let's expand on the theme.
You are hunting and you have a doe tag...you see a Buck ( same species) with a foot shot off.
Do you shoot the buck to give it a good death and pull the tag? It's a small buck, so it's not a 'He just happened to be a 5 pointer' thing.
By the letter of law you are wrong... but morally?
Having ones guts pulled out their behind by coyotes is a bad way to die. See that sorta thing...nightmare fuel.
What do you do then?
Are your morals strong enough that you would run afoul of the law to stand by them?
You are hunting and you have a doe tag...you see a Buck ( same species) with a foot shot off.
Do you shoot the buck to give it a good death and pull the tag? It's a small buck, so it's not a 'He just happened to be a 5 pointer' thing.
By the letter of law you are wrong... but morally?
Having ones guts pulled out their behind by coyotes is a bad way to die. See that sorta thing...nightmare fuel.
What do you do then?
Are your morals strong enough that you would run afoul of the law to stand by them?
In that kind of scenario a person is assuming that their understanding of their morals line up with everyone else’s though, no? Couldn’t the same be said of the reverse situation? The person in question, would their morals be strong enough to let nature take its course?
Realistically speaking, coyotes were going to eat that deer no matter how that deers life played out, except for the chance that he wandered in front of someone who felt that a mercy killing was best at that specific place and time, although one would have to presume that the deer would choose to live given that he was still alive at that point. The only difference is the timing of his death.
Expanding even further on the thought, I recall a bull elk that my dad shot years ago. Dad always said that bull walked out and asked to be shot. They were driving into elk camp, at noon and the bull walked out onto the road in front of them and limped up to the truck and stood there with his head down and waited. When they walked up to the bull they found that his pecker was mostly torn free and every second or third step he would step on it dragging on the ground….
Realistically speaking, coyotes were going to eat that deer no matter how that deers life played out, except for the chance that he wandered in front of someone who felt that a mercy killing was best at that specific place and time, although one would have to presume that the deer would choose to live given that he was still alive at that point. The only difference is the timing of his death.
Expanding even further on the thought, I recall a bull elk that my dad shot years ago. Dad always said that bull walked out and asked to be shot. They were driving into elk camp, at noon and the bull walked out onto the road in front of them and limped up to the truck and stood there with his head down and waited. When they walked up to the bull they found that his pecker was mostly torn free and every second or third step he would step on it dragging on the ground….
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Whoa... already I'm on a side already? I don't remember saying either tact was right or wrong.
I just posed the question... thought it might be stimulating to have a healthy debate about something that doesn't involve politics or pandemic.
But while folks say there is no cruelty in nature... I am not sure it sits well in my mind?
It's a debate.
I think we are a ways from IBTL at this point.
I just posed the question... thought it might be stimulating to have a healthy debate about something that doesn't involve politics or pandemic.
But while folks say there is no cruelty in nature... I am not sure it sits well in my mind?
It's a debate.
I think we are a ways from IBTL at this point.
There are quite a few animals out there that have survived severe injury including losing a limb. They may not live as long or as well as their 4 legged counterparts, but live they do.
Many years ago shot a doe that had been hit by a car. Her leg was ripped off and clearly had all sorts of internal injuries. No chance of survival so I put her down. I've also seen a buck get hit and get up with a broken leg and run off and saw the same deer later, clearly still alive and still chasing does.
Wasn’t aimed at you specifically Tok. Would you prefer I edit my post to read “a person” instead of a theoretical “you” so you read it as intended?
To expand on your cruelty thought though, humans are the only animals that have any concept of mercy, (or cruelty for that matter) animals don’t really have much of a concept of sympathy (although I have seen it in a few instances- donkeys require time to grieve when a pasture mate dies for instance).
I personally believe that wild animals only know what is in that moment, either they caught or got caught, and there isn’t anything that can be done to change that situation. Nothing dies easy in nature, and the outcome is never different, the only aspect that changes is the when, and how long it takes when it comes to death. Not many animals die peacefully in their sleep surrounded by family.
Talked myself into the edit regardless, for clarity.
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This is exactly right. Nature is harsh and brutal and pulls no punches...........
Nature really isn't natural any more. We have been stewards of the environment for quite some time. There may be places in Canada that seem untouched...but we are managing and manipulating species and numbers Canada wide for quite some years.
I don't think it would really be much of a question in my world.
We haven't let 'Nature take it's course' in quite some decades now...mayhap closer to a century.
Me...I'd put it on the ground and tear the tag. Easier for me to say that than some mind you...I hunt from home 95% of the time. So if a neighbor saw me, they would likely nod and approve. Throw a hand in getting it loaded. There wouldn't any doubt in their mind.
Truth told, I squint and try to picture what most if the neighbors would do...I know they wouldn't even hesitate to put out of its misery. Coyotes get an easier meal, Bambi gets an easier exit.
Edit; We had a horrible winter here in 2011. Deep snow, a Chinook came through...warmed it up enough to get a thick crust of say 2".
Death on deer and Antelope, they couldn't paw through to access anything. They would drop through the crust, their progress was retarded and...well, the coyote kills were Legion. After 10 years the Antelope #'s are finally recovering.
KC34 and Kodiak; could you get up in the morning and see a group of coyotes pulling down a B & C buck at the treeline? Then shrug your shoulders and say " Well, that's nature!"
Because interfering on Mr B & C's behalf... that would be interrupting the 'Natural Order'
I think most here would start looking for the keys to the gun safe.
I don't think it would really be much of a question in my world.
We haven't let 'Nature take it's course' in quite some decades now...mayhap closer to a century.
Me...I'd put it on the ground and tear the tag. Easier for me to say that than some mind you...I hunt from home 95% of the time. So if a neighbor saw me, they would likely nod and approve. Throw a hand in getting it loaded. There wouldn't any doubt in their mind.
Truth told, I squint and try to picture what most if the neighbors would do...I know they wouldn't even hesitate to put out of its misery. Coyotes get an easier meal, Bambi gets an easier exit.
Edit; We had a horrible winter here in 2011. Deep snow, a Chinook came through...warmed it up enough to get a thick crust of say 2".
Death on deer and Antelope, they couldn't paw through to access anything. They would drop through the crust, their progress was retarded and...well, the coyote kills were Legion. After 10 years the Antelope #'s are finally recovering.
KC34 and Kodiak; could you get up in the morning and see a group of coyotes pulling down a B & C buck at the treeline? Then shrug your shoulders and say " Well, that's nature!"
Because interfering on Mr B & C's behalf... that would be interrupting the 'Natural Order'
I think most here would start looking for the keys to the gun safe.
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Wouldn’t matter if it was a doe fawn, or a B&C buck, there is always a rifle at hand in my house and coyotes would be getting murdered.
Wouldn’t matter if there wasn’t a deer, there would be dead dogs in the field.
You miss my point though (and by you, I mean tokguy specifically), a deer walking past you in the timber, as a sub trophy animal for discussion sake, with a broken or missing lower leg, is going to end up exactly the same way regardless of your interference or not. The only thing that will change, is the when and how.
No matter what, that deer is still going to die, probably within a couple km radius, and coyotes are going to get some or all of it. Ravens are going to get some or all.
Nothing about that deers life will change, except the length, should you choose to end it. That deer might live 1 more minute, or 4 more years, and there is no way to know. It might have a healthy, productive life but for the fact that you choose to interrupt that.
If you choose to let it walk past, it may or may not survive for some
length of time, and you really don’t know for certain how long that will be.
That said, I have ended the suffering of dozens upon dozens of animals that had very little chance of survival and it merely sped up
the inevitable. But I know that the only thing that it did, was lessen my feelings of empathy for the plight of the animal. Nothing changed for the animal, other than the length of time it took for death to arrive.
Wouldn’t matter if there wasn’t a deer, there would be dead dogs in the field.
You miss my point though (and by you, I mean tokguy specifically), a deer walking past you in the timber, as a sub trophy animal for discussion sake, with a broken or missing lower leg, is going to end up exactly the same way regardless of your interference or not. The only thing that will change, is the when and how.
No matter what, that deer is still going to die, probably within a couple km radius, and coyotes are going to get some or all of it. Ravens are going to get some or all.
Nothing about that deers life will change, except the length, should you choose to end it. That deer might live 1 more minute, or 4 more years, and there is no way to know. It might have a healthy, productive life but for the fact that you choose to interrupt that.
If you choose to let it walk past, it may or may not survive for some
length of time, and you really don’t know for certain how long that will be.
That said, I have ended the suffering of dozens upon dozens of animals that had very little chance of survival and it merely sped up
the inevitable. But I know that the only thing that it did, was lessen my feelings of empathy for the plight of the animal. Nothing changed for the animal, other than the length of time it took for death to arrive.
freddyfour
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
A recovered harvested animal needs a cut tag IMO. Work through the night if there is a good chance of preditor intrusion.
- Location
- WMU247 near Edmonton
a few years back I was helping a hunting partner find a doe he had just shot, a little snow made tracking easy, but it was a poor blood trail.
so waited half an hour and went looking, after I jumped the doe the first time we waited 2 hours and then went in again, and jumped it a second time. We pushed it across a cutline in the hope that it would be moving slow enough to shoot it again, well it blasted across the line in one big jump.
we went back the next day looking for ravens, nothing then the next day again nothing.
went back almost every day to check the area, a week later I found the ravens... well found the carcass, tracks everywhere, it was a smaller buck that the coyotes had killed and judging from the tracks it was a hell of a battle.
never did find the doe, it must have recovered, if it had been mortally wounded the coyotes would have got it.
Now for COs and game, I had one pull up on me after last light while I was gutting a deer, we chatted while I worked and when I was done I loaded the deer on to the quad and then he checked my papers and watched me put the tag on the animal. All my interactions with COs have been good and if your trying to do the right thing they all seem to be good with that.
so waited half an hour and went looking, after I jumped the doe the first time we waited 2 hours and then went in again, and jumped it a second time. We pushed it across a cutline in the hope that it would be moving slow enough to shoot it again, well it blasted across the line in one big jump.
we went back the next day looking for ravens, nothing then the next day again nothing.
went back almost every day to check the area, a week later I found the ravens... well found the carcass, tracks everywhere, it was a smaller buck that the coyotes had killed and judging from the tracks it was a hell of a battle.
never did find the doe, it must have recovered, if it had been mortally wounded the coyotes would have got it.
Now for COs and game, I had one pull up on me after last light while I was gutting a deer, we chatted while I worked and when I was done I loaded the deer on to the quad and then he checked my papers and watched me put the tag on the animal. All my interactions with COs have been good and if your trying to do the right thing they all seem to be good with that.
