European vs American

In General Terms who makes better quality firearms:

  • Total voters
    179
Claven2 said:
It's interesting that a NA favorite is the pre64 Winchester which is basically a Mauser 98 of European origin with some superficial differences ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, why didn't the Germans just stop there, when they shoudl have... :D
 
Gatehouse said:
TimC said:
You fellas stop it, I'm dribbling over my keyboard. I used to pop into to Purdey and Boss regularly to pick up shotgun cartridges whilst working, they always let you walk around and give you brochures without asking. I look like the arse is hanging out of my trousers yet they are always polite and seem pleased to help. I used to show my aussie colleagues around the St james gunshops and gentlemans outfitters, good fun!
Click to expand...

Mmmm English shotguns.... :D
Click to expand...

What Gatehouse said...
 
Pretty or Meat 'n Taters

Ya ,I love European guns "only have one" But i have no problem with a "meat 'n Taters American gun". I have a Mauser mod 66, Nice European Walnut, Rosewood caps, with a Zeiss 1.5x6 scope, last week found a "sweet Spot" in the mountains above Dahlonaga G.A. "heavy Timber" I,ll be back with my "new to me" winney mod 94, hope i can find a pre 64 mod.
 
Of several dozen firearms, I own one of European manufacture. I do appreciate that fit and finish is often a bit better than N.A. built guns, I still have issues with the complexity and design of many firearms built in Europe. [see Leeper's comments] My soul is sold to Remingtons and Rugers and US built Winchesters, plus Mossberg 22's fill in some gaps too. Even the newest Remingtons I have bought are tackdrivers, and they just fit me right and appeal to my eyes, particularly the Classics and the Mountain Rifles. My idea of a great hunting combo is a 700 CDL with a 6x42 Leupold sitting on top. Regards, Eagleye.
 
Europe, if you are talking straight factory production, which is what I presumed the question meant when I voted. My experience is limited to Mauser, Sako and Husqvarna rifles.

Custom rifles from NA are likely to be better quality for the money spent, and look every bit as nice as anything produced anywhere in the world.

Ted
 
Last edited:
eurovsamerica0xj.jpg
 
Trick question? While I agree that the European factory houses far outpace American factory houses, how would you vote if the queston was about custome houses? Have you seen what the Canadian custome houses (PGW, ATR, Dlask etc) have been building recently? State of the art, numerical control CNC...

There's a lot more to quality than a finely figured wood stock.
 
skeetgunner said:
Trick question? While I agree that the European factory houses far outpace American factory houses, how would you vote if the queston was about custome houses? Have you seen what the Canadian custome houses (PGW, ATR, Dlask etc) have been building recently? State of the art, numerical control CNC...

There's a lot more to quality than a finely figured wood stock.
Click to expand...
Good point, get a poll going!!:D :D :D
 
skeetgunner said:
Trick question? While I agree that the European factory houses far outpace American factory houses, how would you vote if the queston was about custome houses? Have you seen what the Canadian custome houses (PGW, ATR, Dlask etc) have been building recently? State of the art, numerical control CNC...

There's a lot more to quality than a finely figured wood stock.
Click to expand...


Have you seen the stuff coming out of Austrian custom houses?
 
skeetgunner said:
Trick question? While I agree that the European factory houses far outpace American factory houses, how would you vote if the queston was about custome houses? Have you seen what the Canadian custome houses (PGW, ATR, Dlask etc) have been building recently? State of the art, numerical control CNC...

There's a lot more to quality than a finely figured wood stock.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Fancy walnut means nothign to me in a hutning rifle.

The rifle that Bill Leeper built for me cost abotu $900 for the factory rifle, plus about $1600 in parts and labour, for a total of about $2500-$2600.

It is a super accurate rifle. The balance and feel of it are perfect for me. It's smooth and reliable.

It is exactly what I want in a hunting rifle, and I doubt very much that any Euro factory or custom gunsmith could make *me* a better hutning rifle, for my purposes, at any price.

Alot of guys will balk at a $2500 price for a rifle, but alot of them are also the guys that will fill thier gun cabinet with a dozen factory guns, none of them being 100% satisfactory to them- Which is one reaosn they keep buying more guns, trying to find the perfect rifle. SO they have several thousand tied up in rifles that aren't exactly what they want.

I am glad that at a reasonably young age (36) I decided what I wanted, and had it made for me, because aot of factory rifles come close to what I want, but none of them have ever been exactly what I want. Euro guns included...;)

Bottom line is if you are going to spend extra $$$ on a Euro gun, why not get one built for you instead?
 
Last edited:
The hunting tradition in Europe far exceeds one's imagination.
The quality of a firearm is rarely judged by how many ragged holes you can have with your Stevens on a 11x8 paper.
The hunting is done completely different. Reliability of the firearms used are far less put to a test, and I've yet to see a EU hunter toting his rifle on the pickup's floor so it can get "the caracter we all like".
Therefore the stocks have a different finish and the money put in the "looks" have a different coeficient.

Most of them have one rifle only. We have at least three. For the same species that is.
We hunt many miles from home, in camps, in freezing rain and sleet, they enjoy a tea - or beer - with their hunting friends on a weather like that.

We like partnership when hunting, but the game is our main quarry. They have a good party wether thay got any or not.
For us is like a prehistoric right to brag and walk tall - we can provide food !!
They talk turkey about a trophy or what method they used to take it.
Compare our army-jungle camo with their wool parka / felt hat.
Ultimately, most of EU have aprentenship of at least one year....we're done in 4 hours.

These all reflect in how they see and appreciate the hunting tools.

my 2 - Euro cents
 
The quality of specialized guns like British double rifles are way out in front - and for $50,000 they should be. Off the shelf guns appear to be better from Europe...but have you heard the dissatisfaction expressed towards the Brno 550 these days? I would buy a M-700 Remington over a Tikka, because of the aftermarket parts available for the Remington - not because the Tikka is of lesser quality. In the area of custom rifles I think that North American builders produce the best rifles in the world.
 
Euro all the way , more polished steel, and beautiful wood, also take a look at the shape of stocks , it conforms to the body better.
We have gone the plastic route, and this has its place for someone staying in the field. But for the average person that likes to cares for a firearm, the beauty of the steel/wood in the Euro product is in a class of its own.
You can get that sorta thing here, but be prepaired to pay big time. I got a custom shop 700 that you can see what the makers can do, but not part of the factory run for sure.
Frank
 
I like my 602 I liked my 116. The CZ looks better the Savage shoots better and is cheaper. U.S. or Euro there's always room in my safe for either. How about Japanese?
 
Leeper said:
American designs are better. European workmanship is better.
Click to expand...
Mmmm, now where was Paul Mauser born.....??
Or for that matter which action was the Ruger No.1 action based on??
No argument about the workmanship.

Leeper said:
Europeans are more progressive while Americans are more inclined to traditional designs. Kind of strange, that.
Click to expand...
Are we talking rifles or every other sort of gun?
There are plenty of firms in Europe that only manufacture traditional style rifles...doubles, safari grade bolt guns and break open single shots.

Leeper said:
Americans are more likely to go with simplicity while Europeans worship complexity often to the detriment of reliability.
Click to expand...
Have you checked out the most recent bolt guns made by Mauser and other firms?
Many are quite simple.

Leeper said:
The Americans still look upon rifles as functional tools. This is reflected even in the custom fields. Europeans often seem to regard rifles, like many other things, as an engineering excercise.
Click to expand...
And it's thanks to this approach that many of the "simple designs" came about.

Leeper said:
They do things just to show they can be done a certain way and still work. Sometimes, they don't really work all that well. The Colt-Sauer rifle is a classic example.
Click to expand...
And there are plenty of American rifles which were complete dogs too because people tried to think tricky.

Leeper said:
The Finnish and Swedish rifles are a bit of an exception. They are usually simple and robust. Workmanship is usually pretty good. Stock design sucks and they are a bit spendy.
Click to expand...
I'd say the Finnish and Swedish design are the rule rather than the exception.
As for stock design it's a personal preference.
There's no doubt that some work better under heavy recoil than others but all in all the "hogs-back" design(which I presume you speak of) is no better or worse in the hands of a hunter who knows his gun well.

Leeper said:
In the end, whatever offers a feeling of pride of ownership to the owner/user is pretty good I figure. Regards, Bill.
Click to expand...
Well, I agree with your closing statement, Bill, but the rest is a HUGE generalisation.
There are firms who make unusual designs but many make more refined versions of the bolt actions Americans make.
Yes, there tends to be big prices, but look again at the workmanship.
As for "complexity to the detriment of reliability", I haven't heard so much hogwash in a long while.
The European firms make guns for their own market and as such their aims are different.
Sure they make drillings and Cape guns and other unusual stuff but they have the job down pat.
Many of these companies have been in business for 4 or 5 generations.
I'd have a locker full of Heyms and Steyrs and Kreighoffs and Sakos if I ever could afford it.
And what about that firm that many of us have forgotten.....CZ.
NOTHING is complicated about CZ rifles.
They have superb workmanship, are competitive and offer every sort of stock design.
To say that the European market only make complicated guns that aren't as well designed as American ones is inaccurate and misleading.
 
No matter how you slice it,disregarding price,Euro guns will outshine NA guns any day,custom or factory.-Rainer
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom