Ever feel like you're chasing your tail?

Sniffer

Sniffer

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I'm relatively new to reloading and have found my feet with the basics (probably made a few thousand 9mm on my progressive which go bang when they are supposed to and seem fine) but when it comes to finding the sweet spot for my rifles I'm a little bewildered

I`m a pretty logical type and do things methodically but it seems I'm missing something as I cant find the sweet spot. Today I took an X95 (I know - not exactly known for its accuracy) to the range with heap of 5 round sets with different amounts of powder. Everything was the same (brass prepped the same way with all the same components) except for the variation in powder weight. There wasn't a set that looked better than the other and it felt like a completely different rifle that I had at the range a couple of weeks ago (which could easily ring the steel at 300 yards with off the shelf basic ammo)

I cleaned the gun between sessions - is it possible that a clean gun can shoot worse than a dirty gun? I cant remember if the factory ammo I was using a couple of weeks ago was 55gr or 62gr but I was using 55gr today - could it be the rifle really doesn't like 55 gr?

Whats the proper procedure when developing a load? Charge weight first to find a promising group which is tighter than the rest and then play with bullet seating depth? Or vice versa? I'm just got a tool to figure out maximum seating depth and I plan to load 10 thousands off the lands - what other distances should I consider?

And what distance? I was at 100 yards today which didn't seem to be working too well. Pretty sure the gun is sighted for 50/200 so maybe thats a factor?

I'm thinking of switching rifles - I also have a Ruger Precision and a H&K SL8 which might be better to learn on before attempting the X95

Help!:d
 
I’m no pro either, but I usually select a powder and bullet I want to try or have available. I find the lands in all my bolt guns and load 20 thou off for each set. Vary the charge weights and look for a favourable group or 2. Then play with seating depth and see if I can tune it even further.

Everyone has their method and there are a million out there I’m sure.

A lot say 200 yards plus is a good starting point.

You would probably see more results in your load changes in a precision gun than in your x95. What magnification is your optic?
 
laker415 said:
I’m no pro either, but I usually select a powder and bullet I want to try or have available. I find the lands in all my bolt guns and load 20 thou off for each set. Vary the charge weights and look for a favourable group or 2. Then play with seating depth and see if I can tune it even further.

Everyone has their method and there are a million out there I’m sure.

A lot say 200 yards plus is a good starting point.

You would probably see more results in your load changes in a precision gun than in your x95. What magnification is your optic?
Click to expand...

3-16X Sightron Stac on the X95

4-20X Sightron Stac on the SL8

10-50X Sightron S3 on the Ruger Precision

Yes - I like Sightron!
 
5.56 nato or a wylde chamber?

If so, confirm that the throat is short enough the 55gr bullet will engrave BEFORE leaving the case neck... otherwise, you are only going to get "milspec" accuracy.

If the throat is long, Hrn 75gr BTHP or a Sierra 69gr MK or 77gr MK can help alot to bridge the gap. But as you will quickly find, this is no tack driver so all you can do is something that is consistent

I would ball park that a good handload will average 1.5 MOA.... but that rifle may not get it done.

If you want to learn the steps, easier and faster... work on your Ruger PR. There are lot of things that make a semi very fussy to load for so best to cut your teeth on something that will respond as you are expecting.

What chamber is the RPR?

Jerry
 
laker415 said:
Have you done development for the ruger yet?
Click to expand...

Not yet, I was trying to find a sweet load for the X95 so I could churn out a bunch on my progressive but it doesn't want to play nice it seems

Maybe I should concentrate on the other two so I can figure out if its me or the X95
 
Mystic Precision said:
5.56 nato or a wylde chamber?

If so, confirm that the throat is short enough the 55gr bullet will engrave BEFORE leaving the case neck... otherwise, you are only going to get "milspec" accuracy.

If the throat is long, Hrn 75gr BTHP or a Sierra 69gr MK or 77gr MK can help alot to bridge the gap. But as you will quickly find, this is no tack driver so all you can do is something that is consistent

I would ball park that a good handload will average 1.5 MOA.... but that rifle may not get it done.

If you want to learn the steps, easier and faster... work on your Ruger PR. There are lot of things that make a semi very fussy to load for so best to cut your teeth on something that will respond as you are expecting.

What chamber is the RPR?

Jerry
Click to expand...

Its 5.56 Nato

Right now I`d take 1.5 MOA no problem

I might focus on the RPR, its a 6.5 Creed
 
Buy a box of 60gr nosler BT and try those? They are my go to for accuracy, I’ve yet to find a rifle that didn’t like them. That’s what I would try anyways.
 
Sniffer said:
Its 5.56 Nato

Right now I`d take 1.5 MOA no problem

I might focus on the RPR, its a 6.5 Creed
Click to expand...

What were the group sizes for the x95.

When I found a load for my ar15 I went for something that had reasonable accuracy but required little powder as a plinking round. It’s nice to shoot tiny holes but some semis just aren’t meant for that.

The 6.5 creed may be nicer to you and let you know you are on the right track with your process
 
Ok.... I start with beating head against a wall to clear the frustration.... lol...

By how much are you changing the powder?

For my load developement i usually pick the bullet and the powder, and distance from lands and go from there. I usually start with a load and go up .5 and down .5 and then up 1 and down 1 grain etc. once i think im getting close maybe work some .1grn differances etc. if im not happy then i change seating depth and start playing with the powder again... im sure if i had a chrono life might be easier....

The big thing i do is load 20 of each road... fire 10 then fire another 10 the next time.... i have had a load i though was bad 3" group at 100... then next time same load i did 3/4"....
this leads to the next thing are you using a sled or bipod or rest at all? sometimes shooter have bad days
 
Uisge said:
Buy a box of 60gr nosler BT and try those? They are my go to for accuracy, I’ve yet to find a rifle that didn’t like them. That’s what I would try anyways.
Click to expand...

Hmm, I`ll keep it in mind but my goal is to find a decent plinking load that works as I have a ton of components ready to load.

Last time out I shot a bunch of plain jane 5.56 factory ammo and it worked perfect so I know its possible
 
laker415 said:
What were the group sizes for the x95.

When I found a load for my ar15 I went for something that had reasonable accuracy but required little powder as a plinking round. It’s nice to shoot tiny holes but some semis just aren’t meant for that.

The 6.5 creed may be nicer to you and let you know you are on the right track with your process
Click to expand...

With the 55 gr I`d say 4+ MOA.... Pretty horrible

I just checked and with 68gr handloads last time out it was doing less than half that (which is weird as almost every report I read suggests that the X95 works best with 55gr)

It really feels like it lost its way a little after it was cleaned. Seems this one likes being a dirty girl......

Maybe I`ll try the SL8 or 6.5 Creed to get a little more experience under my belt
 
tomknotts said:
Ok.... I start with beating head against a wall to clear the frustration.... lol...

By how much are you changing the powder?

For my load developement i usually pick the bullet and the powder, and distance from lands and go from there. I usually start with a load and go up .5 and down .5 and then up 1 and down 1 grain etc. once i think im getting close maybe work some .1grn differances etc. if im not happy then i change seating depth and start playing with the powder again... im sure if i had a chrono life might be easier....

The big thing i do is load 20 of each road... fire 10 then fire another 10 the next time.... i have had a load i though was bad 3" group at 100... then next time same load i did 3/4"....
this leads to the next thing are you using a sled or bipod or rest at all? sometimes shooter have bad days
Click to expand...

I been starting with minimum loads as recommended by Campro data & my Lyman manual (minus 1 gr for 5.56 brass)

I work up in 0.3 increments. I haven't played with bullet seating yet but now I've got the gear to measure accurately I will start 0.010 off the lands and play around a little with that figure when I find an interesting powder charge

I'm using a bipod up front (MPOD) and a bag for the rear. I have a Magnetospeed too which I`ll use when I find something that looks promising - I'm probably being paranoid but strapping it onto the barrel which searching for accuracy feels wrong
 
Sniffer said:
Its 5.56 Nato

Right now I`d take 1.5 MOA no problem

I might focus on the RPR, its a 6.5 Creed
Click to expand...

The RPR will be far faster and easier to get shooting so you can test various parameters and see what is happening on target. If using a 140gr class bullet, H4350 and a CCI200 primer in Hrn brass, start at 40.5gr and work up to 42.5gr... you will find a load somewhere here... DONE.

I would suggest a heavier bullet for the X95 as the long throats mean the lighter bullets are going to spray.... I would go right to the 75gr BTHP with a light/moderate load and see what happens.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
The RPR will be far faster and easier to get shooting so you can test various parameters and see what is happening on target. If using a 140gr class bullet, H4350 and a CCI200 primer in Hrn brass, start at 40.5gr and work up to 42.5gr... you will find a load somewhere here... DONE.

I would suggest a heavier bullet for the X95 as the long throats mean the lighter bullets are going to spray.... I would go right to the 75gr BTHP with a light/moderate load and see what happens.

Jerry
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm thinking of dusting off the RPR and doing just that. Probably gonna use 200 yards as I found it shoots so well at 100 it was hard to tell where the improvements lay.

Thanks for the load info - thats exactly what I`ll do - where should I start off the lands? 0.010"? This distance will be a baseline until I find a powder charge that works and then I`ll play with that next (maybe 0.015 or 0.020)

Regarding the X95, its been banished to the safe for a while until its attitude towards reloading improves!
 
Are you crimping? Bolt guns are way less fussy IMO. In a semi the rounds bounce off that feed ramp. This can add all kinds of inconsistencies to chambered ammunition and make load development an exercise in frustration (ask me how I know). I'd work up a load on your 6.5 and refine your method before you think about trying on your X95 - it would make it easier to isolate any variables that are giving you problems but YMMV. A quality chrony will give you a lot of insight as to what's going on inside the gun as well - especially if you're comfortable with excel and can plot your data. Nodes are way easier to identify when velocities are laid out visually on a chart.
 
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vultr said:
A quality chrony will give you a lot of insight as to what's going on inside the gun as well - especially if you're comfortable with excel and can plot your data. Nodes are way easier to identify when velocities are laid out visually on a chart.
Click to expand...

I am interested in knowing more what's meant here. Can you help me out and elaborate a little more? Thanks!

Regards
Ronr
 
All my semi autos get ammo loaded to the bullet manufacturers COL length. This typically ensures reliable feeding, I may play with seating depth later but they are never loaded longer than the magazine can hold no matter how far off the lands they are.
With 223 I build my ammo in 0.2gr or 0.3gr ladders but in larger cases like the 6.5 you can normally go by 0.5gr but I find the 6.5 to have very narrow nodes, it shoots everything well but it's easy to miss the real magic if you jump too big of a step in the ladder.

X2 for the Nosler 60gr, two of my SL8's would shoot those 1 moa or better sitting over CFE223. The third SL8 I owned probably would have like those as well but I didn't own it long enough to do any load testing. Two of my friends also tried them in their SL8's and got similar results.

Have realistic expectations, you already know the X95 is not know for stellar accuracy so don't expect to find a 1 moa load for it. Some barrels simply can't deliver the consistency needed. 4 moa is a little excessive but if you can find something 1.5-2 moa I would be happy with that. When you want to shoot small groups grab the SL8.

Good choice on the Sightrons, they are my favorite as well when looking for affordable quality.
 
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