Exotic 9mm ammo - pics updated
- Thread starter ghostie
- Start date
The hollow point is deadlier to the paper target. The little hole in the front of the slug cuts the paper, then the bullet shoves its way through that little hole making a bigger hole.
Very very painfull for the paper. Some would say it's just plain MEAN!
LMAO
If you listen very carefully, you can actually hear the paper scream as it gets shot.
The Gold-Dot and the 124gr. Golden Sabre in my pictures came from P&D in Edmonton. They will ship them to you (as I am not in Edmonton either). The 147gr. Golden Sabres, I bought some at a local shop awhile ago. Haven't seen any lately.
There was some CCI Blazer brass in the "non-exotic" pic. The stuff with the aluminum case, that stuff looks terrible to me. I'd probably still shoot some if I found it cheap enough though.
Blazer Brass, no more than a year ago - maybe 18 months ago - you could buy that around here (Vancouver) for $200/1000 rounds. That was a great deal. I should have bought $10,000 worth, it would have been cheaper in the long run. It was better quality than the cheap Fiocchi stuff too. Had a bit of snap to it as well. Now the best I seem to be able to do on any type of factory FMJ 115gr.-type round is about $140-150/500 rounds. With the commercial re-loads, $12/box of 50 if you buy 500 rounds (so, $120).
You're missing that one
Beautiful. Would love to find some of that stuff some day.
You're missing that one
DAMN! I've been looking for Black Talons to add to my collection for a while now.
When did you get them, before or after Winchester stopped making them?
I have seen alot for sale on American gun sites, but obviously they won't ship to Canada.
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For scoped carbine fired from the bench rest - yes. HP 9mm's are far more accurate. Some say its because of longer bearing surface, I say its probably due to weight distibution further away from rotational axes thus contributing gyro effect. For slow-moving (anemic) 9mm Luger pointy FMJ bullets are generally the worst in term of stability. But, again, firing it from automatic pistol off-hand it is hard to notice the difference in accuracy.
- Location
- Sudbury, On
Where'd the Speer Gold Dot come from? Never seen it for sale up here...
You're missing that one
Is the Winchester Ranger 147 grn SXT the same stuff as the black talon stuff?
I have a whole bunch of the Ranger stuff with black bullets and also have alot of ones with golden bullets.It looks the same and shoots the same?
Where'd the Speer Gold Dot come from? Never seen it for sale up here...
The Gold Dot ammo in my pics came from P&D in Edmonton. It was the only type of 9mm Gold Dot they had in stock (at that time).
The .40S&W Gold Dot seems much more common than 9mm. I see the 40 stuff fairly frequently in shops here in B.C. I had never seen the 9mm stuff in Canada before ordering it from them.
Exotic ammo ??
On the Winchester ``Black Talon Saga``....I've been following development & production of this round. Originally put into production for Navy SEALs with strict accuracy requirements: must group into 3 inches at 50 yds from semi-auto fired MP5s. So Winchester went with a longer bearing surface bullet and a heavy weight of 147grs. That was the initial requirement. Winchester jumped on this into further developpement....The so-called ``reverse taper`` buller where the jacket is ticker at the tip than the base. This bulles has a moderate expansion & a deep penetration. It's JHP design also contributes to good accuracy...
A few classified runs of ammo for the US military & 3 production runs of the LE Black Talon. I dont want to get into ``generations`` so I go with production runs...
First pic shows a production line up: Government contract run (brass case, blk bullet), first LE production batch (nickel case, blk bullet), second LE run Ranger mkd box (brass case, blk bullet) and lastly the Ranger SXT as we know it (nickle case, copper bullet)
Top view of the same with case mkgs:
Top view again, notice the copper bullet cavity & jacket serrations:
The ``black bullet`` is DIFFERENT than the copper SXT bullet. From the pre-production to the second production run, the blk bullet is similar. But for some obscure reason, Winchester changed the bulled design for the SXT production:
Original boxes of the 1st & 2nd production runs....The 50rds Ranger box (brass case, blk bullet, WIN headstamp carton tray) IS the tough one to find...
Also, the Govmt Contract ammo has become next to impossible to find...
In closing, high velocity performance handgun ammo as we know it originated late 60s when Lee Jurras of Super Vel was doing experiments....He succeded !! One of his 9mm loading being a 90grs Sierra JSP @ 1400 fps...
I hope that this adds a little information in this very interesting tread...
Mk
On the Winchester ``Black Talon Saga``....I've been following development & production of this round. Originally put into production for Navy SEALs with strict accuracy requirements: must group into 3 inches at 50 yds from semi-auto fired MP5s. So Winchester went with a longer bearing surface bullet and a heavy weight of 147grs. That was the initial requirement. Winchester jumped on this into further developpement....The so-called ``reverse taper`` buller where the jacket is ticker at the tip than the base. This bulles has a moderate expansion & a deep penetration. It's JHP design also contributes to good accuracy...
A few classified runs of ammo for the US military & 3 production runs of the LE Black Talon. I dont want to get into ``generations`` so I go with production runs...
First pic shows a production line up: Government contract run (brass case, blk bullet), first LE production batch (nickel case, blk bullet), second LE run Ranger mkd box (brass case, blk bullet) and lastly the Ranger SXT as we know it (nickle case, copper bullet)
Top view of the same with case mkgs:
Top view again, notice the copper bullet cavity & jacket serrations:
The ``black bullet`` is DIFFERENT than the copper SXT bullet. From the pre-production to the second production run, the blk bullet is similar. But for some obscure reason, Winchester changed the bulled design for the SXT production:
Original boxes of the 1st & 2nd production runs....The 50rds Ranger box (brass case, blk bullet, WIN headstamp carton tray) IS the tough one to find...
Also, the Govmt Contract ammo has become next to impossible to find...
In closing, high velocity performance handgun ammo as we know it originated late 60s when Lee Jurras of Super Vel was doing experiments....He succeded !! One of his 9mm loading being a 90grs Sierra JSP @ 1400 fps...
I hope that this adds a little information in this very interesting tread...
Mk
