Does anyone here have experience with Swift A-Frame bullets? They look like a tremendous hunting bullet--with the bonded front core and thick partition. I'm curious about their accuracy given their somewhat complex construction. And how about their performance on game? On paper, you'd think they'd be capable of consistent 90%+ weight retention on game, but are they too hard for small- and medium-size game? I'm particularly interested in using them in a .264 Win. Mag. and a .270 Win.
Experience with Swift A-Frame Bullets
- Thread starter South Pender
- Start date
Are you drunk?I would bet the thousands of partition users would not agree including myself.Have not tried the Swift bullets but glad your happy
with them.
The A-Frames are great bullets but are not as good as the Partitions when it comes to penetration on large animals.
The design of the Partitions is such that they expand to full diameter quickly on impact transferring energy before the nose shears off and the rear section carries through usually exiting.
The A-Frame on the other hand with it's bonded nose section expands to full diameter and slows quickly as the rear unbonded lead core pushes forward and expands in diameter sometimes matching the width of the nose mushroom.
If weight retention is the sole criteria someone judges a bullet then yes the A-Frame in better. If real-world results and both entry and exit wounds are desired then the Partition may be better on heavy animals.
If they are used on "soft" animals like deer and black bear then neither bullet has an advantage over the other.
When it comes to accuracy both are similar in my experience.
The design of the Partitions is such that they expand to full diameter quickly on impact transferring energy before the nose shears off and the rear section carries through usually exiting.
The A-Frame on the other hand with it's bonded nose section expands to full diameter and slows quickly as the rear unbonded lead core pushes forward and expands in diameter sometimes matching the width of the nose mushroom.
If weight retention is the sole criteria someone judges a bullet then yes the A-Frame in better. If real-world results and both entry and exit wounds are desired then the Partition may be better on heavy animals.
If they are used on "soft" animals like deer and black bear then neither bullet has an advantage over the other.
When it comes to accuracy both are similar in my experience.
Swift A-Frames are good performers in most hunting scenarios. Have used these for decades, without issue. Mostly in .300 WinMag. But other calibers, too. Very dependable expansion and performance. Your .264 should handle them easily. Excellent performers in the .270, too.
I also agree with Hunter89. Have shot plenty of game with Partitions. Never a problem.
ps: My experience with both pretty much echos 'Boo's.
I also agree with Hunter89. Have shot plenty of game with Partitions. Never a problem.
ps: My experience with both pretty much echos 'Boo's.
Never had any issues in the cartridges I've tried them in. All worked well on game. - dan
This is pure bullpucky!! Not only do Nosler Partitions usually retain more than 50% [more like 65%+]of their weight, but they definitely do not suck in the game field.
I have shot well over 100 big game animals with Partitions, dating back to when they were originally released to the shooting fraternity. They have been super
dependable, and are the standard all other bullets are judged by.
That being said, I also consider the A-Frame a very good bullet, and I use it exclusively in my 8mm Rem Mag, and alternately with Partitions in my 308 Norma Mags.
I believe they would be a good choice in the 264 Win Mag, and 257 Weatherby Mags. [I am using 120 Partitions in my 257 W]
Accuracy with the A-Frame?? My 8 mag and my 308 Norma Mags shoot them sub-moa. More accuracy than needed in the game field. Dave.
I've used Nosler Partitions with excellent results on moose and deer (140 gr. in 7x57). First started using them back in the 1970's after noticing some of the "cup and core" bullets separating from their jackets.
My only experience with Swift A-Frame's is on about thirty African species (ranging from vervet monkey to giraffe - so about 5 lbs to 3,000 lbs). Most of these were 400 grain A-Frames out of a 404 Jeffrey, with several taken with 300gr A-Frames out of a 375 H&H.
Performance (killing effect) across the board was excellent, retained bullet weight (where recovered) was excellent (the bonded front end holds together consistently).
Penetration was ideal, in several cases - kudu, lioness, zebra - penetration was "through and through", leaving entry and exit holes and a dead animal within a few yards of the first hit. Yes, some of these required more than one shot - in particular giraffe and waterbuck shot with the 300 grain .375 H&H.
The 400 grain Swift A-Frame out of the 404 Jeffrey tended to be a "one shot" affair (kudu, lioness, zebra, cape buffalo), with the animals hit hard and expiring rapidly. Recovered bullets showed what I consider "ideal" performance (nice mushroomed front, everything held together).
I absolutely recommend Swift A-Frames, especially if you're using a middle bore like the. 375 or 404/416.
That said, I hunt with Nosler Partitions for deer, moose and bear back home.
Partitions work very well for our game (but I would use a bonded or monometal bullet for African game).
If Nosler produced a bonded Partition bullet, that would be the cat's meow. Then again, that would be the same concept as the Swift A-Frame.
My only experience with Swift A-Frame's is on about thirty African species (ranging from vervet monkey to giraffe - so about 5 lbs to 3,000 lbs). Most of these were 400 grain A-Frames out of a 404 Jeffrey, with several taken with 300gr A-Frames out of a 375 H&H.
Performance (killing effect) across the board was excellent, retained bullet weight (where recovered) was excellent (the bonded front end holds together consistently).
Penetration was ideal, in several cases - kudu, lioness, zebra - penetration was "through and through", leaving entry and exit holes and a dead animal within a few yards of the first hit. Yes, some of these required more than one shot - in particular giraffe and waterbuck shot with the 300 grain .375 H&H.
The 400 grain Swift A-Frame out of the 404 Jeffrey tended to be a "one shot" affair (kudu, lioness, zebra, cape buffalo), with the animals hit hard and expiring rapidly. Recovered bullets showed what I consider "ideal" performance (nice mushroomed front, everything held together).
I absolutely recommend Swift A-Frames, especially if you're using a middle bore like the. 375 or 404/416.
That said, I hunt with Nosler Partitions for deer, moose and bear back home.
Partitions work very well for our game (but I would use a bonded or monometal bullet for African game).
If Nosler produced a bonded Partition bullet, that would be the cat's meow. Then again, that would be the same concept as the Swift A-Frame.
I've shot some sub moa groups with the 180gr SAF in my 308 Norma Magnum. Certainly accurate enough for any application you'd need that bullet for. They're a deep penetrating premium hunting bullet best used for moose or elk
I shoot the 200gr Nosler Partition in my 300wm, it won't bounce off big game. The deer I shot a couple years ago with the 180gr NP from my 308 Win went down in a few feet - excellent performance
I shoot the 200gr Nosler Partition in my 300wm, it won't bounce off big game. The deer I shot a couple years ago with the 180gr NP from my 308 Win went down in a few feet - excellent performance
We - my daughter and myself - have shot a few deer with 140 grain .277 calibre, 180 grain 30 calibre and 100 grain 25 calibre Scirocco bullets. All the animals died.
I have found that they can be challenging to get to shoot well and are very sensitive as to OAL.
The lump on the shoulder of this doe my daughter shot a few years ago is a 100 grain Scirocco shot from a .25 WSSM at under 100 yards. Impact velocity was better than 3100 fps (3300 fps muzzle velocity) The recovered bullet retained exactly 80% of it weight even after quartering though the doe - it entered on the last rib on the near side.
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I shot my bull moose with a 286gn partition out of my 9.3x62 with a muzzle velocity of 2400fps the moose was at 105 meters it didn’t even moved one inch, died right in its tracks!! I’ve shot Swift Aframe only to paper, I found it was a bit slower than the partition j’ai g the same powder and the grouping wasn’t as good either in my rifle !
The Swift A-Frame is hands-down my favorite buffalo bullet, hits like a hammer and crazy penetration. Makes a mono look like a pellet gun when they land.
You have to realize that a buffalo is a really mean and unusual thing to do to a bullet . Don't judge that as being the best on everything; thick-skinned game is totally a different game.
In a general sort of way high retained weight is the biggest crock of #### that was ever offered as a sales technique. Solids have 100% weight retention and are so pathetic that they are illegal for big game hunting in most any right thinking country in the world.
There are faster ways to kill things like a scrawny deer, bear or elk; namely making the biggest hole that is deep enough. The biggest wound cavity that you can make is with a fragmenting bullet. There's no use arguing it. You might have some concerns about using varmint bullets on big game because of potential lack of penetration, but something like a Partition splits the difference by blowing 1/3 to 1/2 of its weight off and holds enough together to ensure penetration for those bad angles and bad days that require them. An Accubond does about the same. So does just about every boring factory load most of the time.
The Scirroco is an interesting one. I've used them culling in 25, 270 and 30 cal. When you're trying to take selected animals out of a herd there is usually an overall advantage to bullets that stop in the first one. You can pretty much forget about that with a Scirroco; but we did find an interesting game when two of the selected animals lined up, A Scirroco was great for taking out both, and I still haven't recovered a single one. I've lost track of how many twofers I've done on purpose, but little matter, thats sort of a specialized use anyway.
You have to realize that a buffalo is a really mean and unusual thing to do to a bullet . Don't judge that as being the best on everything; thick-skinned game is totally a different game.
In a general sort of way high retained weight is the biggest crock of #### that was ever offered as a sales technique. Solids have 100% weight retention and are so pathetic that they are illegal for big game hunting in most any right thinking country in the world.
There are faster ways to kill things like a scrawny deer, bear or elk; namely making the biggest hole that is deep enough. The biggest wound cavity that you can make is with a fragmenting bullet. There's no use arguing it. You might have some concerns about using varmint bullets on big game because of potential lack of penetration, but something like a Partition splits the difference by blowing 1/3 to 1/2 of its weight off and holds enough together to ensure penetration for those bad angles and bad days that require them. An Accubond does about the same. So does just about every boring factory load most of the time.
The Scirroco is an interesting one. I've used them culling in 25, 270 and 30 cal. When you're trying to take selected animals out of a herd there is usually an overall advantage to bullets that stop in the first one. You can pretty much forget about that with a Scirroco; but we did find an interesting game when two of the selected animals lined up, A Scirroco was great for taking out both, and I still haven't recovered a single one. I've lost track of how many twofers I've done on purpose, but little matter, thats sort of a specialized use anyway.
Bigfoot 870
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
I'll share my experience...
I've been shooting the .270 Win cartridge since 1989.
I currently shoot 150 grain NP's, in factory Federal Premium ammo. I bought a good qty of this ammo to prepare for, then go on a BC mule deer hunt, which never happened. I had planned on shooting out to 250 yards, and understood that a muley could weigh as much as 100 pounds more, live weight, than a NS whitetail.
I am now disabled, and hunt from a ground blind, with 70 to 80 yards being my maximum shot distance. Of all the different projectiles I have shot, out of a .270, this NP is the most shocking, literally. The front end does a giant amount of damage, and usually is in pieces, in the deer, while the back end does exactly what it's supposed to do. Some lost venison, but I never have to follow a blood trail, which suits me just fine, based on my mobility. Sure, I could get by with Federal Blue Box ammo, but my current setup shoots nice tight groups, with the FP NP 150's.
It will help us all, if you tell us your intended projectile weight, maximum hunting shot distance, and animal(s) being sought.
BF
(PS-I believe that my setup is suitable for elk, out to 300 yards, and moose, out to 200 yards, where the front end won't fragment as badly. I'll never get to try it, though, so I'll be following this thread, closely.)
I've been shooting the .270 Win cartridge since 1989.
I currently shoot 150 grain NP's, in factory Federal Premium ammo. I bought a good qty of this ammo to prepare for, then go on a BC mule deer hunt, which never happened. I had planned on shooting out to 250 yards, and understood that a muley could weigh as much as 100 pounds more, live weight, than a NS whitetail.
I am now disabled, and hunt from a ground blind, with 70 to 80 yards being my maximum shot distance. Of all the different projectiles I have shot, out of a .270, this NP is the most shocking, literally. The front end does a giant amount of damage, and usually is in pieces, in the deer, while the back end does exactly what it's supposed to do. Some lost venison, but I never have to follow a blood trail, which suits me just fine, based on my mobility. Sure, I could get by with Federal Blue Box ammo, but my current setup shoots nice tight groups, with the FP NP 150's.
It will help us all, if you tell us your intended projectile weight, maximum hunting shot distance, and animal(s) being sought.
BF
(PS-I believe that my setup is suitable for elk, out to 300 yards, and moose, out to 200 yards, where the front end won't fragment as badly. I'll never get to try it, though, so I'll be following this thread, closely.)
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I think you've got carbon monoxide poisoning. Either that or crappy well water.
Swift makes excellent bullets. The A-Frame is the logical evolution of the Nosler Partition design and really shines when you get into the larger diameters and go after heavier game. I don't really see the need for them in most deer and antelope hunting situations. Maybe big mule deer. For elk or moose the A-Frame is probably superior to the Partition, but only on a raking shot. A 180 Partition out of a 300 WM will punch through behind the shoulders of a moose and stop under the hide on the off side, even on a shot over 200 yards. That's plenty good enough. If you start talking about shooting larger, non-dangerous African game, then the A-Frame comes out well ahead of the game, especially when you consider that African game is generally shot through both front shoulders due to the location of the heart slightly farther forward than on North American game. For that task, the extra retained weight and penetration of the A-Frame is a decided bonus.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I've been thinking that the Scirocco might be exactly what I want for my upcoming Alberta Elk hunt, if I decide to take my late father's 7 Weatherby. It just seems like the ideal bullet for that kind of cartridge.
