F-Class "supports" question

But Terry, I like the clown suit. Why else would I put on a 10 lbs leather shooting jacket in 95 degree weather?
I get up after a 15 round string with 3 to a target, sweat dripping down the crack of my ass, and look over at Terry laying there in his T-shirt, telling me he is a little sweaty. :lol: Ya, I remember that.
I might join the T-shirt gang some day, when I am old and feeble :p
I did try F class one time, but almost froze to death without the jacket, it was only about 85 that weekend. I did find out, "it aint as easy as you guys make it look".
 
I often wonder why all these "real men" who use bipods instead of sandbags are always crying so piteously. Wah Wah Wah. If you want to use a bipod, do so but stop the sniveling.
I have fired "F" class with a bipod, with an old Wichita rest, over a sack of sawdust, and with a sling. My success (or lack thereof) with any of the rest systems (including the bipod) has been the same. Shooting with the sling is different of course and, I must admit, really wears me out. Those TR guys are tough!
I once shot alongside a man who was complaining that those using custom actions should have to compete seperately. I was, at that point, on my way to winning by a comfortable margin with a M70 based rifle so didn't see the point.
The rules allow for certain systems to be used at the option of the competitor. I don't understand why such freedom of choice seems so threatening to some.
One aspect of all of this though is that it reinforces the need for good hearing protection. Otherwise all that high pitched whining from the bipod crowd could cause permanent hearing loss along with persistent nausea! Regards, Bill.
 
Richard338 said:
You can pound a big benchrest front rest into the ground. You can use heavy rear bags, or attach sleds, monopods, or anything else you can dream up within the weight restriction (22lbs). If its not attached to the rifle it doesn't count as weight. Jokers who are scared to test their skill are pushing it as far as they can. F-class is becoming "###" class. People say that "the rules allow it so I have to follow". Well if you brought a new shooter to the range telling him that you were a "1000-yard marksman" he would laugh when he realized that he was too with your setup. If everyone admitted that it was shameful, the rules could be changed immediately.
I don't care who beats me with benchrest bull####, I will shoot from a bipod. They and I both know that they are clowns. To answer your question, use whatever you want, and your self respect allows.
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You sir are despicable! To bad mouth target shooters competitive or otherwise who participate in f-class matches within the rules as outlined by the respective organizations is something that shouldn’t be tolerated. It’s fine to have an opinion but your comments go far beyond a simple opinion to the point of mocking us. It so happens that I shoot f-class using the gear you so outrageously protest against. If you were looking for a raise well you’ve got one out of me!

Your insistent whining about kit on the line (I take it you’re a bit up the ladder from ball and musket) that you choose to go up against only indicates your lack of vision. I doubt the Wright brothers would hold the same view you do against jet aircraft that are common place today. The envelop, is there to be pushed and while some of us choose to push that envelop to the maximum and then some we do adhere to the rules in our respective classes when competing. The rules for f-class are constantly evolving as they should and as evidenced by the drastic reduction in the v-bull and x-ring on the 1000 yard targets in common usage in today’s competitions. We’ve gone from a 12 inch v-bull to 5.25 inches or less than ½ a minute at 1000 yards. The classes within the f-class discipline have grown substantially from George Farquharson’s singular vision of F (F) to include F(M) (mass produced rifles) and F(O) (open rifles). If there is sufficient demand for further F- sub classes there is no doubt in my mind they will come under consideration.

As Terry so aptly replied in another thread where you continued to mock… I echo his sentiments here.
 
Richard 338

I respect every person's right to an opinion ,no matter how ignorant it
prooves the source.
Attitudes like yours , does nothing to support or expand the shooting sports and
in reality ,is really a part of a problem inside the competitive shooting arena.
Hopefully in time your experiences in our sport may allow you to mature to accept the nature of individual challenge rather than denegrading someone elses pleasure.
I look forward to the opportunity of meeting you on the line sometime this season where perhaps we could share some thoughts on the future of
shooting sports in Canada.
sincerely
Ont0001
 
The fellow who won a load of stuff at the last DCRA in FO class did it with a bipod. I guess we need to ban the bipod as only real men use a rest!
The thing to remember is that the TR guys were beating the F guys for a number of years before the F guys figured it out. I am TR shooter, always have been. I can still put on my coat and put in a competitive score without too much effort, I have done it for so long that it is instinct. I tried F class and for a guy that hates to see anything outside of a bull it was a lot of effort and I had to think about what I was doing. I may try it again this summer.
 
I was that fellow Ian .It is irritating to see comments such as those made by this individual ,but everyone has to have something to whine about I guess.
Just wish it was an informed whine.
Or I maybe wrong.Perhaps his comments were made just to "stimulate" chat.
A gunnut G.Springer sort to speak.
Anyways ..nuff said.
 
ONT0001 said:
I was that fellow Ian .It is irritating to see comments such as those made by this individual ,but everyone has to have something to whine about I guess.
Just wish it was an informed whine.
Or I maybe wrong.Perhaps his comments were made just to "stimulate" chat.
A gunnut G.Springer sort to speak.
Anyways ..nuff said.
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I thought this thread died a while back, but I guess it is walking the Earth like a zombie!!:eek: :D
Cat
 
I thought this thread died a while back, but I guess it is walking the Earth like a zombie!!:eek: :D
Cat
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Whatever Cat... I come across statements like this while viewing threads you think I'm not going to comment if I see it? Had I seen it earlier, I would have commented earlier and the view back then is what that view is now and what it's going to be in the future!
 
This thread and the others like it had died for months. I realized long ago that the majority of shooters like the current direction of f-class. I got some PMs from people that agree with me but I think the majority just want to see those v-bulls. Fine by me.
Of course Leo D'Amour was beating everyone with all of his gear, and no one liked that. He got told to change his equipment. Certain F-class shooters said that with all of that gear he wasn't really shooting it, and it wasn't competitive. Hmmm, sounds a lot like my #####ing before. Maybe people just don't like losing. Maybe they are hypocrites...
Anyway I'm happy to say that while I was all frustrated with the direction of f-class, I was totally unaware of "service conditions" matches. Those sound great to me and I think I'll try that for now. Please let this die again.
 
I think the problem some have with some of the styles of shooting is not only that it turns into an arms race,but that it goes against the spirit of things.We constantly have people trying to game it out here in BC in Service Conditions.It's quite annoying actually.People always trying to push the envelope."Well it's within the rules..." they say.My opinion is that too many people try to take the easy way out by buying some funky space gun, laying it on a rest or bagging it in and barely touching it when it fires,instead of practicing enough with stock equipment to become a decent shooter.I find it VERY satisfying when I kick thier asses with stock equipment.
 
jkajfes said:
Whatever Cat... I come across statements like this while viewing threads you think I'm not going to comment if I see it? Had I seen it earlier, I would have commented earlier and the view back then is what that view is now and what it's going to be in the future!
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No problem, everyone is entitleed to an opinion, and just becuase you didn't jump in from the get go doesn't mean you are not allowed to comment!:D

Rules are rules, and winning within the rules is okay.
I get a bit miffed when I am toild I should be shhooting a piece of riggin' becuase I can, or I shouldn't be "because it's too easy or "not fair".
I get both because I tend to shoot what I prefer at the time, and somtimes the gear is not the norm, one way or the other!
Cat
 
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billybob said:
I have read the entire thread so far. You guys have pricked my interest I,m going to try "F" class this year with an old Palma Match ,old Unertal scope and a bipod and plan on putting holes in the air and have fun !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Can we see pics of this rig?
RTB Unertls are way coool!
Cat
 
Longshot said:
I think the problem some have with some of the styles of shooting is not only that it turns into an arms race,but that it goes against the spirit of things.We constantly have people trying to game it out here in BC in Service Conditions.It's quite annoying actually.People always trying to push the envelope."Well it's within the rules..." they say.My opinion is that too many people try to take the easy way out by buying some funky space gun, laying it on a rest or bagging it in and barely touching it when it fires,instead of practicing enough with stock equipment to become a decent shooter.I find it VERY satisfying when I kick thier asses with stock equipment.
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Well richard338 isn't going to be happy to hear that service condition matches are potentially tainted! I think in any shooting discipline you will find to a certain degree any number of given shooters who are pushing the envelop. I believe its simply a part of human nature to do this. I would dare say even in the Olympics the rules and guides are pushed to the maximum in some of the disciplines they are after all extremely competitive shooters. There are procedures to file a protest if you feel the existing rules are being broken. There are also procedures for making changes to what’s considered allowable kit in a particular discipline. If enough people come forward holding the same views then change will be made or another class of shooting formed.

I feel you find this in any sport throughout history. I’m sure even in golf you’ll find purests who frown or whence when someone uses a new flangled putter or comments to the effect I would have done just as good as ? if I had his set of graphite clubs. In fishing I suppose it’s like that cartoon I once saw… Penn Long Beach 268 reel with multi-disk drag on a Dennis Braid power plate graphite composite rod, two hundred pound test, nice setup and some guy motors in with a huge net contraption.

It’s up to the respective rules committees to decide what’s in and what’s out. The TR Palma style shooting has been carried on for how many years and has there always been total agreement amongst the competitors in the years up to the present? If you’re not shooting a 155 Sierra you’re out. If the rifle isn’t chambered in .308 caliber you’re out. If you’re trigger trips during the weigh-in you’re out… If you’ve got optics both front and rear in your sighting system you’re out… if your buttons aren’t in a certain position on your shooting jacket well I guess you’re out, if you wear Haines underwear well I’m not sure… and even with the rules being well defined there’s still this propensity to push the areas where they are not so well defined until such a time a change of rules re-aligns the thinking.

If you love a particular discipline you will find a way to mentally get around the specific hurdles that are mind blocking you. If not perhaps you really didn’t want to compete in that particular discipline.

What you’re telling me is that it’s no different in your service condition matches. I didn’t think it would be any different.

f-class target shooting will constantly evolve...

I don’t think we’re going to throw it all out in favor of whipping spears down range from the 1000 yard markers. Sorry that graphite spear is illegal? You need to be whipping this cast iron 7 foot job. Wait a minute that blades too wide… You can’t wear those thongs and sandals… where’s your shirt?
 
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