Factory Savage wins big shoot!

Why not?

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The Hickory North Carolina Egg and Groundhog Shoot, considered by many to be the World Championship of Varmint Shooting, with targets at 100, 300, and 500 yards shot without any wind flags or sighting shots was won for the first time with an unmodified factory rifle – a Savage LRPV in 223.

Shooters from every continent come to Hickory each April to compete. There have been many articles in Precision Shooting and other magazines from serious competitors on the custom rifles they have built to win this competition.

Always before there has been a factory and an open (custom) rifle category and winner. This time a factory Savage took both trophies.

This competition depends on a score based on concentric scoring rings on a life-size groundhog target (not group size) and on the ability to hit a real chicken egg at 500 yards. A Harris bipod or similar device is allowed. No sighters for vertical adjustment are allowed between changes of the three ranges (100, 300, & 500 yards). No sighters for wind and there are no wind flags.

First, second, and third place in factory category were all taken with Savage factory rifles. With the first place factory rifle also winning the open category.

Three boys from Savannah, Tennessee, brought three identical Savage rifles – all 223 Remington caliber with 7-inch twist.

Each boy took turns shooting each rifle (as is allowed). Each rifle was shot at all three distances by each boy without leaving the shooting range position. No one recalls what scope they were using. When asked, the boys did not know what ammo they were using and said somebody just handed the ammo to them before they left for North Carolina.

Many other shooters complained – especially Remington 40X shooters – saying that those Savage rifles had to come from Savage’s Custom Shop. Of course, Savage’s Custom Shop just screws/bolts together standard factory parts in combinations not available in the catalog, e.g., screw a factory blued barrel onto a factory stainless action. The boys insisted that the three rifles were purchased off-the-shelf in a gun store. The competition match director confirmed this personally the next week.

Many have said that those boys were just lucky because the wind was blowing so hard the day of the shoot and knocked the rest of the shooters off their game. Many said that on another day Remingtons would have won.

Savage seems to be doing OK these days.


Ted :)
 
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Well the rules are pretty savage so it is fitting a Savage won... it will be interesting if they can back this up...
 
Sheesh!!! On any given day any rifle can win the marbles, unless it can't hit the proverbial barn door from inside the barn. Lady luck shone on the boys this time. As Guntech says, let's see them back it up consistently. Regards, Eagleye.
 
It's amazing that it's the Remmy crowd crying foul after loosing. When will they learn.......:D. It's the person shooting the rifle that wins, not the rifle that the person is shooting. It been a fact the last 2 years that Team Savage (in the US) has been cleaning up the trophy's at almost all of the competitions. They generally take 2 of the top 3 positions. There is something good going on in the Savage factory. :sniper:

-Jason
 
So some 40X shooters are complaining that the Savage rifles might of been put together with the same care and attention as thier rifles?? Last time I checked the 40X was from Remington's custom shop.

It's not always the most accurate gun that wins, and regardless of anything else, these fellows apparently have some talent. In less demanding conditions and with sighters allowed, they might not of done so well, but we don't know that for sure. Regardless, on that day they were certainly competitive, and good for them.
 
The article states that there was 3 boys. I would assume by the term "boys" that they were under 18 yrs of age. Personally I would think that is quite an accomplishment. Sure, maybe they got lucky at the shoot, or maybe they have a skill I'd be jealous of. In any case since a protest was launched, investigated, and a conclusion of "fair win" was handed down. The rest of the shooters should just shake the boys hands and say "good shooting, see you at next years event".

I googled the shoot and only found reference to 6mm Br and a few other forums. I didn't find anything related to this particular shoot. If anyone has better luck maybe you can post it so we can read up on it further.
 
Was happy to see success for Savage at such a hard fought event.

I think the 'conditions' played into those that spend time in the field shooting varmints and less time on a range popping paper (my assumption of the 3 shooters that won).

If there were flags, sighters and all the normal aids, these boys might not have done so well because the 'better' gear/shooters would have had the assistance to maximize their performance.

But that is not field shooting.

See the target, dope the conditions and let some lead fly.

Most BR shooters can't do that well because they have become so dependent on aids. Tactical shooters and air rifle field shooters can be superb at this because that is key to winning at their discipline.

Were those Savages accurate? Sure, but no more so then the next 12FV or BVSS. Or a Stevens...

A 223, no matter the load in a stiff wind, gets bounced around something fierce. The only way to shoot it well is to know what it will do in the winds before you pull the trigger.

And that takes simple practise out in the fields hammering varmints, rocks or clays....

Jerry
 
Was happy to see success for Savage at such a hard fought event.

Most BR shooters can't do that well because they have become so dependent on aids. Tactical shooters and air rifle field shooters can be superb at this because that is key to winning at their discipline.

Were those Savages accurate? Sure, but no more so then the next 12FV or BVSS. Or a Stevens...

A 223, no matter the load in a stiff wind, gets bounced around something fierce. The only way to shoot it well is to know what it will do in the winds before you pull the trigger.

And that takes simple practise out in the fields hammering varmints, rocks or clays....

Jerry

Kind of you not to mention that one can't just drop down and shoot a sighting target when the conditions change too, Jerry. Boy I'd like to be able to do that when practicing for F class, especially when I have a nice group spoiled because I don't quite adjust right for a condition change. I felt there was the smell of 'sour grapes ' surrounding the complaints regarding the young guys' equipment. Some people just have to be hit with a brick before they start to pay attention.
 
Sweet, nothing better than Marketing Savage by winning Shoots rather than advertisements in every Gun magazine from Remi boys :p

Go Savage :D

I'll buy another one :wave:
 
Gee, I wish there was a big todo every time Remington won or a Neskia or a Bat or an HS or even a PGWDTI won. anything.

Why because its not that uncommon.

It seems that you guys are surprised that your fantastic(mystic) Savage rifles may win something.
 
Gee, I wish there was a big todo every time Remington won or a Neskia or a Bat or an HS or even a PGWDTI won. anything.

Why because its not that uncommon.

It seems that you guys are surprised that your fantastic(mystic) Savage rifles may win something.

Some truth to this actually, especially when all one would see at matches for years was Remi, Remi, Remi. Part of it also comes from the fact that the worst shooting rifle I ever owned was a Savage in 300 Win mag. I bought it on a special sale many years ago, back in the days when Savage was in receivership. The thing kicked like a mule and wouldn't group better than 4 - 5 inches at 100. So, I took it to have a friend put a muzzle brake on it, feeling that the recoil was putting me off. I had no idea what a 300 would feel like, or what it would do, having never shot a magnum before. At any rate, my friend called me from his shop and I went down. He had the barrel turning in his lathe and it looked like a skipping rope. (It was bent) So, yeh, I get a bit twitchy and feel good when Savage wins. It also confirms something I'm seeing in the face of negativism from alot of other people who I thought were part of an activity that was a bit more experimental and open than it is proving to be. I've been around long enough not to worry about that too much, but it does have its effect just the same.
 
I take nothing away from the accomplishment because it's worthy of an episode of "That's Incredible", but Marksmen makes a good point... If BAT, Nesika or Panda won, it would never get mentioned. It's expected. The gun is a hummer and three guys using it did very well. Good for them!! I've seen a couple of the LRPV's with hand-loaded ammo and their results are actually not even close to all the hype they got.
 
Most BR shooters can't do that well because they have become so dependent on aids.
Jerry

Jerry, your knowledge on the topic of BR shooting is low.

You think it is all about the equipment. It is not. Not even close.

Almost the entire game is about wind reading. The rifle, the rest, the flags etc, only gets you on the playing field. The rifle can't win the match on its own. This should appeal to you, it is a "drivers" game as you like to refer to aimed fire contests.

You have 7 minutes to form a 5 shot group. This could entail a single aiming point or 5 different aiming points depending on the conditions. You may have to repeatedly fire on the sighter target in these 7 minutes to gauge the changing conditions. Then you will often have to aim outside the group in the hopes you read the condition correctly and have the wind push the bullet back into the group. Some people will consume 5-10 sighter shots while forming a single 5 shot group. All in 7 minutes.

I urge you to learn first hand what BR about. It isn't what you think it is.
 
rpollock, I know you don't believe this but I know quite a bit about SR BR as that is where I started my centerfire 'career'. Never competed but learnt alot over the years.

Stepped away from it when costs skyrocketed, and lack of events made that investment less interesting.

I moved to LR shooting as this was readily available and new family life kept any travelling to zip. I enjoy the challenge of doping conditions without massive number of wind flags, just using natural cues.

Then there are the added quirks of loading and building rifles for these tasks. Quite a bit different trying to tame the ignition of 96.5gr of powder.

I now shoot F class as family obligations allow for limited weekends away so I can compete. I find this task a great blend of the accuracy/repeatability of BR with the doping skills of field shooting. Belly BR seems like an appropriate description.

I am sure that if you looked at my 6.5 Mystic rifle you will see many cues from SR and LR BR all optimised for the F class task. That design was not done by accident and quite different from the rifle you will see on the line.

If you knew me better, you will know that I do not make statements from the hip. What I say I have done, I have done enough times to validate my results. In many instances, these results have been duplicated by others which is a true way to confirm a result.

Alot of it is nonconventional but it does work on paper which is what matters.

As you have so well described, the 'aids' that BR shooters use and depend on for their amazing results were not offered at this shoot. There were no flags, no sighters, no load tuning, just sit down and shoot your score.

That and the high winds were the great equalizer. I bet the scores were pretty low with many DNF's as shooters had to quickly come to grips with how much to hold off and over. Getting one zero is not going to do your overall scores any good.

I bet a rifle just able to maintain the main scoring ring - sub MOA - was enough IF you could guess the conditions correctly.

Which lead me to my first post. Many came with superb equipment. I bet the majority came with strong BR backgrounds and capable of hitting that egg mechanically. However, how many had the field craft and luck to guess strong winds on a cold bore shot.

Very very few shooting disciplines require that skill. We almost always have sighters and a sighter done properly can tell you all you need to know to hit tiny targets in difficult conditions. Especially if backed up with sufficient wind flags.

So I am glad that Savage came up on top especially in the factory class. That says alot for their production consistencies. Also, the driving skills of that triplet.

The fact that it also won the Open was just as much skill as luck. Repeat this event on a calm day and I doubt that Savage would have scored in the top 10 in open. But it might still have won factory.

One of the big reasons why I stepped away from SR BR was the need for custom actions not just for accuracy for also for 'gunning. Then there were the mega dollar optics with Hubble like magnifications that would let you see the bullet holes. The costs of barrels, barrels, and more barrels. Not just match bullets, but 'custom' or tuned bullets. And so on and so on.

I much prefer disciplines where equipment performance must be sound but driver skill is paramount.

You can't win at SR BR with a 1/3 Min rifle no matter how good you are at doping but there are many more disciplines where you can. 1/3 min rifles nowadays are pretty cheap to build and shoot.

Jerry
 
rpollock, I know you don't believe this but I know quite a bit about SR BR as that is where I started my centerfire 'career'. Never competed but learnt alot over the years.

Stepped away from it when costs skyrocketed, and lack of events made that investment less interesting.

I moved to LR shooting as this was readily available and new family life kept any travelling to zip. I enjoy the challenge of doping conditions without massive number of wind flags, just using natural cues.

Then there are the added quirks of loading and building rifles for these tasks. Quite a bit different trying to tame the ignition of 96.5gr of powder.

I now shoot F class as family obligations allow for limited weekends away so I can compete. I find this task a great blend of the accuracy/repeatability of BR with the doping skills of field shooting. Belly BR seems like an appropriate description.

I am sure that if you looked at my 6.5 Mystic rifle you will see many cues from SR and LR BR all optimised for the F class task. That design was not done by accident and quite different from the rifle you will see on the line.

If you knew me better, you will know that I do not make statements from the hip. What I say I have done, I have done enough times to validate my results. In many instances, these results have been duplicated by others which is a true way to confirm a result.

Alot of it is nonconventional but it does work on paper which is what matters.

As you have so well described, the 'aids' that BR shooters use and depend on for their amazing results were not offered at this shoot. There were no flags, no sighters, no load tuning, just sit down and shoot your score.

That and the high winds were the great equalizer. I bet the scores were pretty low with many DNF's as shooters had to quickly come to grips with how much to hold off and over. Getting one zero is not going to do your overall scores any good.

I bet a rifle just able to maintain the main scoring ring - sub MOA - was enough IF you could guess the conditions correctly.

Which lead me to my first post. Many came with superb equipment. I bet the majority came with strong BR backgrounds and capable of hitting that egg mechanically. However, how many had the field craft and luck to guess strong winds on a cold bore shot.

Very very few shooting disciplines require that skill. We almost always have sighters and a sighter done properly can tell you all you need to know to hit tiny targets in difficult conditions. Especially if backed up with sufficient wind flags.

So I am glad that Savage came up on top especially in the factory class. That says alot for their production consistencies. Also, the driving skills of that triplet.

The fact that it also won the Open was just as much skill as luck. Repeat this event on a calm day and I doubt that Savage would have scored in the top 10 in open. But it might still have won factory.

One of the big reasons why I stepped away from SR BR was the need for custom actions not just for accuracy for also for 'gunning. Then there were the mega dollar optics with Hubble like magnifications that would let you see the bullet holes. The costs of barrels, barrels, and more barrels. Not just match bullets, but 'custom' or tuned bullets. And so on and so on.

I much prefer disciplines where equipment performance must be sound but driver skill is paramount.

You can't win at SR BR with a 1/3 Min rifle no matter how good you are at doping but there are many more disciplines where you can. 1/3 min rifles nowadays are pretty cheap to build and shoot.

Jerry

So many contradictory and incorrect statements in the above post I don't know where to begin. It only confirms you don't understand BR.... But you sure think you do!
 
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