The 1/4 mil and 1/2 mil squares are so you can learn too shot off the dots and why we have did it in inches is its the easiest way to teach mil ranging and and pretty much all scope manuals tell you how to rang in inches when you are out in the field weather you are hunting or training you don't look at your target in cms you gauge it in inches then A you dial or shoot off your mils
Finally a mil-mil target
- Thread starter aegis62
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did not use the quote button on my last post it is in reference to this post
Sorry, I'm not following the significance of the 1/4 and 1/2...
And using inches is actually a modification of the base formula. It requires the additional step of converting inches to yards. Centimeters is can be converted to meters if you're working in metric (European snipers do). I can work in either, it really isn't complicated. Angle is independent of the units of the vertex.
The base formula is:
Range (units) = Size of the object in (units) x 1000 / Size of object in mils
It works with yards or meters:
Range (yards) = Size of the object in (yards) x 1000 / Size of object in mils
Range (meters) = Size of the object in (meters) x 1000 / Size of object in mils
If I wanted to range with the mildots in the field, I wouldn't bother with math anyway. I'd just use a pre-made ranging card like this one:
'
Ranging does require math and knowing the size of your target, correcting for misses does not in a matched FFP setup or in an SFP one (at the magnification the reticle is accurate at). You simply measure with the reticle and plug the numbers into the turrets directly.
the target is a zeroing target for mil-mil scopes... it has bugger all to do with ranging or teaching anyone how to use any one of the number of formulas for ranging unknown distance targets.. it is set up for use at 100 yds not meters.. this is why the grid lines (1 mil)are set up at 3.6 inches (not 3.9 as if it were 100 meters) and the 1/10 mil grid lines are 0.36" (meters would be 0.39) so the target is meant to be used at 100 yds... the 1/4 and 1/2 mil grid lines are simply to check for the correct power setting of your optic and to shoot off the mils ( or parts of) instead of using the cross hairs... the chart at the bottom of the target shows (in inches) what a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and a mil equate to at every 100 yd intervale out to 1000 yds..
Agreed, which is why I found it funny ranging was mentioned in his reply.
That makes more sense.
Don't know why you need to know that, but sure...
Sorry, I'm not following the significance of the 1/4 and 1/2...
And using inches is actually a modification of the base formula. It requires the additional step of converting inches to yards. Centimeters is can be converted to meters if you're working in metric (European snipers do). I can work in either, it really isn't complicated. Angle is independent of the units of the vertex.
The base formula is:
Range (units) = Size of the object in (units) x 1000 / Size of object in mils
It works with yards or meters:
Range (yards) = Size of the object in (yards) x 1000 / Size of object in mils
Range (meters) = Size of the object in (meters) x 1000 / Size of object in mils
If I wanted to range with the mildots in the field, I wouldn't bother with math anyway. I'd just use a pre-made ranging card like this one:
'
Ranging does require math and knowing the size of your target, correcting for misses does not in a matched FFP setup or in an SFP one (at the magnification the reticle is accurate at). You simply measure with the reticle and plug the numbers into the turrets directly.
let's say the spotter reports the miss is in inches/(target yds/100)=MOA. So spotter see a 15" miss @ 436yds........
a 15" miss at 436 yds looks like this 15/4.36= 3.44 MOA(3 1/2") just dial or holdover
or
A miss in inches is simply converted to mils, 436yds /100* 1mil@100yds
looks like this 4.36 *3.6 (1mil@400yds)= 15.69", so a 15" miss @ 436 yds is slightly more than a mil holdover or actually 1.09mil or rounded 1.1mil holover.
So the chart @ bottom of the taget allows one to easily find a partial value of inches or mils in relation to
1 mil @ 100yds =3.6"
1 mil @ 200yds =7.2"
1 mil @ 300 yds =10.8"
etc.
Realize that the ideal behind creating scopes that have matched turrets and reticles was to eliminate the need to do a bunch of math like that in order to correct misses. The intent was to be able to simply measure with the reticle and correct directly. The reticle tells you the mil or MOA correction without the math exercise (which will likely fall apart when done under stress).
I know that people are used to doing it that way with the older target scopes, but doing it with mil/mil or MOA/MOA scopes is like hooking a horse up to a car because you're used to horse and buggy. You can do it, but you're making things far more complicated that they need to be and you aren't taking advantage of the features of the newer system. Integrating in a specific linear unit like inches into it puts limits on the user. It keeps them confined to one system of measurement. Mil/mil (or MOA/MOA) is very easy to use in either yards or meter if taught properly. Ranging can be done in either unit to get distance using the base formula. It's the same, and its easy.
Distance is just a number used to index your dope. Dope is just a number, it changes from caliber to caliber and even over different loads, environmental factors etc... After you range, the need to think about inches or centimeters disappears, everything can now be done directly in mil or MOA. Things like how many inches or centimeters 0.1 mil is at whatever distance doesn't matter. You don't NEED to think about that... ever (wasn't even needed for ranging). You want to remove the notion that the user is confined to one system of units because after ranging your target it doesn't matter what the range is in yards or meters. In the field, its going to be an odd number anyway and your reticle tells you what the correction is instantly, regardless of distance, without the need to do math. With the FFP scope, it does this always, at any magnification. With the SFP, you need to be on the proper magnification
I know that people are used to doing it that way with the older target scopes, but doing it with mil/mil or MOA/MOA scopes is like hooking a horse up to a car because you're used to horse and buggy. You can do it, but you're making things far more complicated that they need to be and you aren't taking advantage of the features of the newer system. Integrating in a specific linear unit like inches into it puts limits on the user. It keeps them confined to one system of measurement. Mil/mil (or MOA/MOA) is very easy to use in either yards or meter if taught properly. Ranging can be done in either unit to get distance using the base formula. It's the same, and its easy.
Distance is just a number used to index your dope. Dope is just a number, it changes from caliber to caliber and even over different loads, environmental factors etc... After you range, the need to think about inches or centimeters disappears, everything can now be done directly in mil or MOA. Things like how many inches or centimeters 0.1 mil is at whatever distance doesn't matter. You don't NEED to think about that... ever (wasn't even needed for ranging). You want to remove the notion that the user is confined to one system of units because after ranging your target it doesn't matter what the range is in yards or meters. In the field, its going to be an odd number anyway and your reticle tells you what the correction is instantly, regardless of distance, without the need to do math. With the FFP scope, it does this always, at any magnification. With the SFP, you need to be on the proper magnification
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kombayotch is right.
Your spotter should directly measure the amount of your miss in mils, using his scope's reticle (and at longer distances there's a good chance that you as a shooter also saw the splash, and can do the same thing).
Then the shooter makes a correction and fires. There are two ways for the shooter to correct - dial it in with the knobs, or aim off with the reticle.
No math. Visual, and direct.
Your spotter should directly measure the amount of your miss in mils, using his scope's reticle (and at longer distances there's a good chance that you as a shooter also saw the splash, and can do the same thing).
Then the shooter makes a correction and fires. There are two ways for the shooter to correct - dial it in with the knobs, or aim off with the reticle.
No math. Visual, and direct.
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When a rifle scope is mildot and E&W is in mils. My old mildot is MOA E&W though
I know where 300yds to 750yds is in relation to my midot @ 12.5X and @24x and a 10MPH crosswind.
If I am shooting targets, I usually dial up.(my E&W is MOA)
If I am yote hunting, I holdover.
Mostly I just miss
Range tested the mil mil target
Let me say I really like the idea of the mil mil target more now that I've actually been able to use them in the field.
The target is excellent for 100 yd(and it was designed for that). However I set up at a lasered 300yds to start this morning. I fired 4 rounds of Fed. Sierra MatchKing 69 gr and 4 rounds of Hornady 55 gr V Max to check my Fouled Cold Bore and holdover for each cartridge weight.
After barrel cooling, I repeated the above sequence again and confirmed about a 1/4mil or 2.7" left of center POI.
I had felt I had the Windage zeroed but I was shooting in a 12mph wind when I initially zeroed a week ago, so somehow I had zeroed in some wind.
Moved to 100 yds, put up new targets, fired 4 shots 69gr, 4 shots 55gr and yep, almost 1/4 mil or 1" left POI and easy to see on the mil mil, adjusted the windage and rezeroed the windage turret knob.
Confirmed the FCB and a 3 shot group with 69gr and FCB and a 3 shot group with 55 gr.
All in all I was well pleased with the mil mil target as my rifles have scopes with mildot reticles and it is just easier to do the math with(the chart at the bottom of target) for the holdovers and comeups.
A really usable, understandable, mildot target.
Also I want to be clear that I am in no way a part of nor am I affiliated in any way with Ranger Tactical the suppliers of these targets.
Cheers
Let me say I really like the idea of the mil mil target more now that I've actually been able to use them in the field.
The target is excellent for 100 yd(and it was designed for that). However I set up at a lasered 300yds to start this morning. I fired 4 rounds of Fed. Sierra MatchKing 69 gr and 4 rounds of Hornady 55 gr V Max to check my Fouled Cold Bore and holdover for each cartridge weight.
After barrel cooling, I repeated the above sequence again and confirmed about a 1/4mil or 2.7" left of center POI.
I had felt I had the Windage zeroed but I was shooting in a 12mph wind when I initially zeroed a week ago, so somehow I had zeroed in some wind.
Moved to 100 yds, put up new targets, fired 4 shots 69gr, 4 shots 55gr and yep, almost 1/4 mil or 1" left POI and easy to see on the mil mil, adjusted the windage and rezeroed the windage turret knob.
Confirmed the FCB and a 3 shot group with 69gr and FCB and a 3 shot group with 55 gr.
All in all I was well pleased with the mil mil target as my rifles have scopes with mildot reticles and it is just easier to do the math with(the chart at the bottom of target) for the holdovers and comeups.
A really usable, understandable, mildot target.
Also I want to be clear that I am in no way a part of nor am I affiliated in any way with Ranger Tactical the suppliers of these targets.
Cheers
